Pressure washer pumps

[Kalts]

Hi

My disposable K2 Kärcher has given up and this time am looking for serious 3ph 5+ kW one.
While looking for a new one I stumbled upon topic of pump differences. All are of piston type but driven differently, axial vs crankshaft i.e. triplex. Also looks like axial ones can be of simple design like Kränzle wobble/swash plate and another I'm not even trying to name here:

That video can be hidden promotional agenda of course, but it is not alone in calling the triplex pumps superior. However I am not convinced, why axial pump with springs would be much less efficient than crankshaft one? Energy used to compress the spring is not lost and will be expended to move piston back and suck water in. While the crankshaft pump has to similarly move piston back and suck water in, but energy in that case is transmitted through crank/shaft. So what is your take on that? I am eyeing AR 1007 and Kränzle Quadro lines and the pumps are main difference. AR 1007 does not have integrated water tank and I've heard that is important. There is also weird discrepancy in official manual as the minimal permitted intake water pressure is 1 bar (p 5.1), yet on the same page it describes "Suction of water from open containers" (p 6.5.3). The local dealer only mumbled about AI translation...

 

[hotponyshoes]

The ones that can suck in water from an open container do have a minimum flow requirement if run from a supply.
Otherwise they can suck more than is being provided which can cause the hose to collapse and result in it running dry.

 

[carbon]

If using commercially then the machine should have a water break tank so the machine can not back contaminate the water source if connecting directly to the mains water.

At 140bar plus I’ve always preferred triplex pumps for durability.

 

[Kalts]

Manual p 6.5.2 calls for one-way check valve if connecting to drinking water supply. This and missing the water tank points that AR 1007 is meant for domestic use only, at least on paper?
Kränzle however is emphasizing that the water tank is for avoiding cavitation. So what is it, both? Only the Quadro and Profi series from Kränzle seem to have integrated water tanks, so looks like regulations at play.
To be honest I can do without water tank if it's only meant to avoid back contamination. I am always using separate spray tank for soaking anyway.

AR 1007 is a bit cheaper and locally available. Anybody knows how bad is the pressure hose coming off the reel? Will it have tendency to coil similar to telephone handset cable? Yes I'm old and have never used washer with integrated reel

 

[knighty]

do you use hot or cold?

never found diesel heaters very reliable

swapped to interpump ht pumps made for hot water, feed 80'C mains water into it

works really well

used to run a 7.5hp pump... but guys working for me killed it running it dry when I wasn't in :-(

bumped up to 10ho when I replaced it... not because it needed it but just a "why not" deal and it's a bit too powerful tbh, we had to go up a nozzle size otherwise it kills your arms if you use it for any length of time

 

[frank horton]

Had similar probs with elec powerd washer's...the last one was Kacher, lasted untill just out of warrenty....
Bought a cheapo Honda clone powered petrol model....still working and years old....
what made me decide was that a new replacement brass pump was around £60 at the time....

 

[Turbo]

Hi

My disposable K2 Kärcher has given up and this time am looking for serious 3ph 5+ kW one.
While looking for a new one I stumbled upon topic of pump differences. All are of piston type but driven differently, axial vs crankshaft i.e. triplex. Also looks like axial ones can be of simple design like Kränzle wobble/swash plate and another I'm not even trying to name here:

That video can be hidden promotional agenda of course, but it is not alone in calling the triplex pumps superior. However I am not convinced, why axial pump with springs would be much less efficient than crankshaft one? Energy used to compress the spring is not lost and will be expended to move piston back and suck water in. While the crankshaft pump has to similarly move piston back and suck water in, but energy in that case is transmitted through crank/shaft. So what is your take on that? I am eyeing AR 1007 and Kränzle Quadro lines and the pumps are main difference. AR 1007 does not have integrated water tank and I've heard that is important. There is also weird discrepancy in official manual as the minimal permitted intake water pressure is 1 bar (p 5.1), yet on the same page it describes "Suction of water from open containers" (p 6.5.3). The local dealer only mumbled about AI translation...

That video is AI generated bs.

I spent many years in the pressure washer industry and I have never seen an 'axial' pump used on a pressure washer. They are very expensive and are mainly used for hydraulic systems.

Most washer pumps are either wobble plate or crank driven.
There is nothing wrong with wobble plate or swash plate pumps. They are more compact than a crank pump and that efficiency thing is bs.

Two of the biggest players in the industry Karcher and Kew/Alto switched from crank pumps to swash pumps many years ago. They had a much better performance and a lower power requirement as you have less moving parts and less power losses.

I have a 1989 Karcher cold washer still in use with a swash plate pump. But that was from the days when Karcher were the best in the world. Their stuff now is overpriced rubbish.

Kränzle are one of the few makers that still produce a good quality wobble plate type pump.

The downside of a swash plate pump is that you are generally tied to the manufacturer for service items like seals, valves and unloaders.

That being said I do like a triplex pump. They are simpler in design, easy to work on and you generally get more bang for your buck than swash plate pumps.
They use off the shelf generic bolt on parts like unloaders so you can buy them aftermarket.
They also are better at suction feed as you have a crank pulling the piston back on the suction stroke instead of a spring.
If you buy a good make they will last a lifetime. I've an interpump cold washer that has been in regular use for 35 years on a farm and it has only needed basic servicing to keep it running perfectly.

For goodness sake do not buy the AR pump. They are a cheap copy of an Interpump and use cheap substandard parts like aluminium cylinder heads.

The only pumps I would recommend are an Interpump, a Hawk, a Speck or if you are rich a Cat.

My suggestion would either be an Interpump Ws201 or ws202 pump. There are tens of thousands of these across the world in industrial applications and they are a simple reliable proven item.

https://www.michael-stewart.co.uk/product/powerwash-polo-3ph-15lpm-by-pass/

https://www.michael-stewart.co.uk/product/interpump-ws201-pump/

For a high output pump like you want you are going to need a water tank. The UK water supply will be unlikely to have enough flow to feed your pump. You run the risk of the pump starving for water and melting the seals.

The normal practice is to feed them from a 200l plastic barrel with the inlet connected at the bottom of the barrel and the bypass going from the pump back into the barrel.

 

[brightspark]

i have an interpump 3 cylinder hp hot water washer with a 3hp motor it has a brass cylinder head on it ,bought it second hand 25 years ago and still going strong .only maintenance has been replace the hydraulic hose and scored a decent second hand one one for nothing

 

[roofman]

i have an interpump 3 cylinder hp hot water washer with a 3hp motor it has a brass cylinder head on it ,bought it second hand 25 years ago and still going strong .only maintenance has been replace the hydraulic hose and scored a decent second hand one one for nothing

Thats all i will use for my roof cleaning..the Interpump 201 or 202 series going through an rs500 reduction gearbox, super tough pumps and rebuild kits easily available for not much money.

 

[Domdom]

Mine was an Interpump, bullet proof. It performed a lot better using inch hose off a water butt and the standard garden hose filling the same water butt. If I ran it off half inch garden hose directly it would vibrate badly, I assumed because of cavitation.

 

[roofman]

Mine was an Interpump, bullet proof. It performed a lot better using inch hose off a water butt and the standard garden hose filling the same water butt. If I ran it off half inch garden hose directly it would vibrate badly, I assumed because of cavitation.

thats the unit i sold you...met you in the carpark of your works..they love a buffer tank for full performance.

 

[sako243]

My parents bought a Mistral pressure washer 37 years ago (about 3 weeks after I was born). It came with a CAT pump that @Turbo mentioned. About 5 years ago the electric motor finally gave up the ghost so Dad ordered a new slightly more powerful one but never got around to sorting it out so gave it to me and they bought a replacement Mistral.

I turned it into Frank - a Frankenstein pressure washer using various bits of scrap to align the pump and motor. Still going strong although I'm currently rebuilding it so that the cover actually fits over the top properly.

 

[Bornfree]

We run cat650 pumps with 6 pole 11kw motors direct mounted. These are a little overpowered but they sometimes run 8 hours a day. The cat pumps run for year's but unloader valves only last for 6 months.

 

[Kalts]

To be honest I have almost unused Lavor Independent 2800 sitting in basement for the last... 5 years? Yesterday I was told to disregard the neighbours and carry on That might be the best plan. I should get rotating jet nozzle for the Lavor and try if that makes a dent to the overgrown stone parquet. As I remember the normal jet did not.

 

[brightspark]

Mine was an Interpump, bullet proof. It performed a lot better using inch hose off a water butt and the standard garden hose filling the same water butt. If I ran it off half inch garden hose directly it would vibrate badly, I assumed because of cavitation.

running mine of the garden hose it sucks dry and empties the gallon tank in about 5 minutes running it vibrates so i just stop a minute till it refills then off again

 

[fizzy]

That video is AI generated bs.

I spent many years in the pressure washer industry and I have never seen an 'axial' pump used on a pressure washer. They are very expensive and are mainly used for hydraulic systems.

Most washer pumps are either wobble plate or crank driven.
There is nothing wrong with wobble plate or swash plate pumps. They are more compact than a crank pump and that efficiency thing is bs.

Two of the biggest players in the industry Karcher and Kew/Alto switched from crank pumps to swash pumps many years ago. They had a much better performance and a lower power requirement as you have less moving parts and less power losses.

I have a 1989 Karcher cold washer still in use with a swash plate pump. But that was from the days when Karcher were the best in the world. Their stuff now is overpriced rubbish.

Kränzle are one of the few makers that still produce a good quality wobble plate type pump.

The downside of a swash plate pump is that you are generally tied to the manufacturer for service items like seals, valves and unloaders.

That being said I do like a triplex pump. They are simpler in design, easy to work on and you generally get more bang for your buck than swash plate pumps.
They use off the shelf generic bolt on parts like unloaders so you can buy them aftermarket.
They also are better at suction feed as you have a crank pulling the piston back on the suction stroke instead of a spring.
If you buy a good make they will last a lifetime. I've an interpump cold washer that has been in regular use for 35 years on a farm and it has only needed basic servicing to keep it running perfectly.

For goodness sake do not buy the AR pump. They are a cheap copy of an Interpump and use cheap substandard parts like aluminium cylinder heads.

The only pumps I would recommend are an Interpump, a Hawk, a Speck or if you are rich a Cat.

My suggestion would either be an Interpump Ws201 or ws202 pump. There are tens of thousands of these across the world in industrial applications and they are a simple reliable proven item.

https://www.michael-stewart.co.uk/product/powerwash-polo-3ph-15lpm-by-pass/

https://www.michael-stewart.co.uk/product/interpump-ws201-pump/

For a high output pump like you want you are going to need a water tank. The UK water supply will be unlikely to have enough flow to feed your pump. You run the risk of the pump starving for water and melting the seals.

The normal practice is to feed them from a 200l plastic barrel with the inlet connected at the bottom of the barrel and the bypass going from the pump back into the barrel.

My mate used to own a Dynorod franchise. Their best jetter was a Haben that used a peristaltic pump. Had some serious grunt. Where it scored was with the shaker function. Basically pulsed like mad which would often help remove the blockage.

 

[Turbo]

We used to get a 200l plastic barrel. Cut round the top most of the way so that you can hinge it back. Use a bit of builders strap and self tappers to secure it down. That helps keep the dirt out.

4" up from the bottom fit a tank connector with a stub of 22mm copper on it. *

A 3/4 hose is a nice push fit over the copper. Connect the other end to the pump with a large bore Nito quick release.

The bypass hose from the washer goes into the top of the barrel.

If you wany to get fancy you can fit a ballcock to the barrel to stop it overflowing but it does restrict the flow.

*The 4" stops you sucking in any dirt in the bottom of the barrel.

I must have made dozens of these to be sold with large flow pumps.

I'll post some photos.

 

[Kalts]

Took the Lavor out of storage and was surprised how light it is. Not a problem even for my small frame to toss it into car without thinking much about it.
Carb was of course gunked, took an hour to clean it all up but after that fired on first pull. Made a lot of noise in the quiet, darkening neighborhood... saw the curtains moving.
That basically was the reason for abandoning it, but times change and I hope to have thicker skin now. It was bought more than 7 years ago in the peak of my motorcycling period.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I might turn around and purchase a bigger petrol powered one instead!