Engine Start Problem

[Craig-SM]

I took the Shogun for its MOT on Tuesday, which it passed. When the tester went to move it out of the bay afterwards it cranked over a few times instead of starting straightaway like it normally does. I assumed he left the ignition on and the battery had run down having done similar myself. Charged the battery that night but next day still not starting correctly but did start. Unfortunately at the farm shop it decided not to play at all so had to get a jump start. Ordered a new Yausa battery but still wasn't great at starting and even after taking it for a long run on the motorway it still cranked over a few times before firing up. Put that battery on charge last night and only a slight improvement.
Cleaned up the clamps and checked the earth lead to the body and then to the engine block, all nice and tight. Again no change but ran a jump lead from the engine to the earth to be on the safe side but no improvement. I was able to reach down through the engine bay and get a finger to the exciter lead on the starter motor but not far enough to remove it and clean it up. It started on 2nd crank this time so think I'm making progress. I need to do a service so will get the bash plates off and get to the starter from underneath so I can remove and clean up the contacts on the lead.

Is there anything else I could be missing or do you think I should just bite the bullet and replace the starter motor?

Note. Those familiar with the Shogun, this is the Mk3 that had issues with fuel pump getting destroyed with rust particles from the filler pipe that gets through the filter. I don't think it is fuel pump related as the filler pipe and tank have been replaced and the old ones were rust free, once started it idles perfectly and never dies in Drive.

 

[carbon]

Any fault codes?

Petrol or diesel?

 

[Haz87]

Unless you had a full on sound system running with ignition on at the MOT station, leaving ignition on for an hour shouldn't decimate a battery, so I fear you've spent out unnecessarily (unless it was due anyway).

Throughout your post you've said its cranking, and haven't mentioned slow cranking or cranking that then stops - that means the starter is fine...
So start looking at the fuel or electronics sides (crank sensor, HT/Spark (if petrol) etc)

 

[Craig-SM]

Any fault codes?

Petrol or diesel?

No fault codes and it's a diesel.

 

[Craig-SM]

Unless you had a full on sound system running with ignition on at the MOT station, leaving ignition on for an hour shouldn't decimate a battery, so I fear you've spent out unnecessarily (unless it was due anyway).

Throughout your post you've said its cranking, and haven't mentioned slow cranking or cranking that then stops - that means the starter is fine...
So start looking at the fuel or electronics sides (crank sensor, HT/Spark (if petrol) etc)

Yes, probably bought a battery when not needed.

Slow cranking then starting after about 4 cranks now down to 2, was on first turn of the key.

 

[MattF]

Can you not just get the service bits for the starter?

 

[Craig-SM]

Can you not just get the service bits for the starter?

I'fe not looked into them, just thought replacement

 

[MattF]

It tends to be a couple of copper pads & the plunger/solenoid. Easily enough replaced. Did mine on the Surf I had.

The Shogun is similar to the Pajero?

 

[Craig-SM]

It tends to be a couple of copper pads & the plunger/solenoid. Easily enough replaced. Did mine on the Surf I had.

The Shogun is similar to the Pajero?

Yes, same as Pajero

 

[barracuda816]

I would give the fuel pipes a thorough examination. It could well be you have a slight leak allowing a tiny bit of air to get in resulting in a long crank issue. Any wet/dark spots need investigation.

You could also test this if you have a primer pump, give it a few pumps and see if it starts easier.

Is it cranking slowly?

 

[carbon]

If it has a flexible leak off return line check the condition of the hose at the injectors and check the condition of the blanking cap on the end injector. I’ve had those perish and cause poor starting issues

 

[Craig-SM]

I would give the fuel pipes a thorough examination. It could well be you have a slight leak allowing a tiny bit of air to get in resulting in a long crank issue. Any wet/dark spots need investigation.

You could also test this if you have a primer pump, give it a few pumps and see if it starts easier.

Is it cranking slowly?

I'll try priming it again but it would be strange for it to suddenly get air in the system whilst sat there but no harm trying.

If it has a flexible leak off return line check the condition of the hose at the injectors and check the condition of the blanking cap on the end injector. I’ve had those perish and cause poor starting issues

I don't think so but I'll check

 

[Craig-SM]

Definitely starter motor. It left me stranded last night and wouldn’t jump start from a passing driver. Had to get my mother out to pick up my wife and dog. Wife returned with the other car and tried jumping it again with no joy, just a click as you turned the key.
Returned this morning with a freshly charged battery and jumping from the other car too and still just a click. After quite a bit of flicking the key got a bit more activity and a partial crank. Hitting the starter with the jack handle got a bit more clicking. More hitting the starter and flicking the key and it sluggishly turned over and started. Now back in the drive and I’ll get a new starter motor fitted, not got time to try and rebuild.

 

[Jack_K]

Definitely starter motor. It left me stranded last night and wouldn’t jump start from a passing driver. Had to get my mother out to pick up my wife and dog. Wife returned with the other car and tried jumping it again with no joy, just a click as you turned the key.
Returned this morning with a freshly charged battery and jumping from the other car too and still just a click. After quite a bit of flicking the key got a bit more activity and a partial crank. Hitting the starter with the jack handle got a bit more clicking. More hitting the starter and flicking the key and it sluggishly turned over and started. Now back in the drive and I’ll get a new starter motor fitted, not got time to try and rebuild.

This could still be a poor connection or relay. Touch a wire between the battery terminal and trigger terminal and see if it cranks. This is the type of thing that happens when the voltage being supplied to the solenoid is too low. The solenoid can draw around 30a or more to engage but if the voltage drop is too much it won't engage.

I would be getting out a multimeter before replacing anything. Test, don't guess.

 

[Craig-SM]

This could still be a poor connection or relay. Touch a wire between the battery terminal and trigger terminal and see if it cranks. This is the type of thing that happens when the voltage being supplied to the solenoid is too low. The solenoid can draw around 30a or more to engage but if the voltage drop is too much it won't engage.

I would be getting out a multimeter before replacing anything. Test, don't guess.

I checked and cleaned up all the connections on Sunday. The solenoid is engaging as you hear the clack as it throughs the sprocket out to the flywheel and you also see the big voltage drop. I didn't connect the starter direct to the battery though but too late now as new starter motor has been ordered.

 

[wobblie]

I had a similar issue on my BMW Z4, for all the world seemed like a gradually failing battery (replaced), or bad connections on the starter. Turned out it was a bad starter, replacement for £80 was the easiest option
(maybe could have refurbished it but I needed the car off the road for as short a time as possible)