What steel for forging?

[hotponyshoes]

I've made a good few punches for hot work out of en9 with good success. Mind you I've also used coil springs and leaf spring with some success. I've seen people use half shafts for hammers as well.

I've made various things out of various materials successfully as well.

I expect an Internet search for any given item and any given material will find someone who has managed it.

I've also had lots of people ask me how to heat treat some random unknown piece of metal as they are a bit upset that the tool won't work like they expected.
On questioning, it often turns out I am not the first person they have asked..
Knives are quite common, they spend hours and hours making it then find it won't take or keep an edge or snapped in half the first time they tried chopping up a chicken..

A particularly common one is people who have had farriers rasps from me and made knives successfully.
They then find some rasps that 'look the same' and follow the instructions I gave them then wonder why the edge chips cutting bread..

 

[BrokenBiker]

You'll never get the deposit back so weigh up the cost of that against buying a refillable lpg bottle outright..

any calor bottles ive ever had have always ended up as BBQ's or wood burners long before ive conisdered arguing about the deposit

i see what you mean though. i think ill grab a 47kg calor for now, see how long it lasts me...may move to a refillable but would want to stop in to the garage and chat with them first as knowing my luck the LPG doesnt work and they forgot to remove the sign...i think there is only the 1 near me although i pass a commercial place with work a lot, but cant really stick a bottle in the crane on the off chance

i have some old land rover springs to use up that were always destined for knives or punches of some sort but not been able to do much with them til now...i have a chunk of micra drivehsaft left as it can be turned ok, but threading with a tap is a no go so be interesting to anneal that properly and see if it makes a difference.

think i can get my hands on HGV half shafts when a recovery mate does scrap runs with busses and tractor units

 

[hotponyshoes]

If you can get the 47kg's then refillable is not a lot cheaper.
It only works out much better when you are paying £79 for a 19kg..

 

[BrokenBiker]

If you can get the 47kg's then refillable is not a lot cheaper.
It only works out much better when you are paying £79 for a 19kg..

ah fair enough.

i can definitely get the 47kg bottles, there are a few suppliers locally but the one on my route to work is the one i used to use for my grandmother and the guy running it knew her quite well before the dementia took over and she stopped going out.

 

[Screwdriver]

one thing i would like to make having thought about it earlier is a comically small wrecking bar...i know a concrete fixer that is talking about retirement soon...he is only 5 foot so id say an 18 inch long bar should suffice as a retirement gift

Mini one of these would be fun: https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/burke-bar.93523/

Failing that, I have always fancied a crack at a Halligan bar.

 

[BrokenBiker]

So, bit of a result...furnace is being delivered today so ive just been out scouting for gas...place i wanted to use didn't stock the 47s, so went to the next best option...turns out I know the guy that runs the place, used to be on my team when I was a Supervisor in a factory...so 47kg propane with no bottle rental fee, £94 all in and who would've known, it fits across the back seats of an x type jag

 

[Jackimus]

So, bit of a result...furnace is being delivered today so ive just been out scouting for gas...place i wanted to use didn't stock the 47s, so went to the next best option...turns out I know the guy that runs the place, used to be on my team when I was a Supervisor in a factory...so 47kg propane with no bottle rental fee, £94 all in and who would've known, it fits across the back seats of an x type jag

Score!!

 

[BrokenBiker]

Score!!

Was tempted to be cheeky and get 2 as I was expecting to pay 150-170...but 2 in the car was optimistic at best...maybe go back in a week or so for a second as ive just ordered a propane torch as well

 

[steve t]

Get an oxygen bottle and rig up a oxygen propane torch. Be handy for some bending cutting and hardening punches etc

 

[BrokenBiker]

Get an oxygen bottle and rig up a oxygen propane torch. Be handy for some bending cutting and hardening punches etc

That thought did cross my mind...my argon supplier does oxygen as well

 

[BrokenBiker]

So it begins...its arrived.

Packaged well I must say.

First thoughts are...jesus this thing gets hot.

Got it set up and currently have a 65dia 8ish mm thick puck of en8 in there to see how hardening it goes.

Also have some unknown tough steel I want to play with and the drive shaft off cuts that could really do well as transfer punches if it hardens well enough...

And yes, before its mentioned, the wooden bench is temporary. I have steel coming beginning next week to make a stand

 

[BrokenBiker]

so, turns out, ether im being impatient and not letting the steel soak long enough in the heat, or...blacksmithing is a lot harder than it looks...just put a bit of 30x3mm mild steel in the forge, got it to a nice dull orange...now granted i dont have an anvil, but i do have a 500x500x10 slab of steel with a decent bit of weight to it...and its welded to my bench...put the steel on the edge, walloped it with a 2.5lb hammer and...bugger all happened probably down to me not letting the heat do its thing long enough, but ive ordered a little anvil for now as space is a huge premium and i keep buying big toys...got steel coming in a few days to make a new welding bench, stand for the forge and hopefully the anvil and ive got a lump hammer head needing a handle, so will attempt to grind that into a rounding hammer and get my father to turn me a handle from one of his off cuts.

but, that minor defeat apart, the forge is absolutely spot on, easy to build, easy to use...definitely needed the extra fire bricks though, they really help leep the heat in.

cut a 250mm length of 25mm unknown flavour but reasonably hard driveshaft...took under 5 mins to get it to a bright red so its now hung up in the shed air cooling to hopefully anneal it enough i can make decetn parts from it without trashing inserts, and that was mostly the point of buying this forge, annealing and small scale hardening of free stock and turned parts, and for that it is spot on...now i just need an IR thermometer that can deal with up to 1000 degrees

 

[Jackimus]

I've only dabbled in blacksmithing, but found you want mild steel to be glowing pretty bright to be able to work it - and even then you only have a little time to hammer on it before it wants to go back in, for small pieces like I was working on and you seem to be.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I've only dabbled in blacksmithing, but found you want mild steel to be glowing pretty bright to be able to work it - and even then you only have a little time to hammer on it before it wants to go back in, for small pieces like I was working on and you seem to be.

that makes sense...i had a sort of medium bright red but wasnt as hot as it could have been by any means.

i will have another stab once the driveshaft has cooled down.

i need to make some tongs so will have a scout around site monday for some rebar or some steel round bar off cuts for that. melted the handle on my pipe grips, my 1 pair of vice grips have seized up and ive burnt my hand i dont know how many times before i rememberd i have about 7 pairs of welding gloves i could be using

 

[Screwdriver]

Get some wrought iron to warm up on...

This practice piece is another relatively easy warm up albeit mild steel not wrought:

There's some detail on how I did it on this forum but plenty of "how it should be done" YouTube vids.

This was my first (and so far only) attempt! Amaze your friends...

 

[BrokenBiker]

Get some wrought iron to warm up on...

thought that was almost impossible to get now?

to be honest i think it was the heat that was my main issue. ive just gone out and left the same piece in the heat for twice as long as before and it was glowing red this time rather than just the normal cherry, few hits with the hammer and i can see it moving, nice little dent where i had it on the corner of the plate...if i put some decent effort into it i reckon it would have moved a lot more. i just assumed that becasue i can bend steel so easilly at cherry, thats also the heat you forge at and the videos on youtube dont give a great representation of colour.

i have just realised how easy twists are now though...have done them with a torch before and it was painful...180 degree twist in some flat bar just now was literally 1 hit and a few taps to staighten it up.

wish id bought this sooner to be honest, ive done countless jobs that ive struggled with and this would have had them done in a fraction of the time

didnt think to try on the 'anvil' on the back of the vice, but may give it a go in the morning.

 

[Screwdriver]

thought that was almost impossible to get now?

to be honest i think it was the heat that was my main issue. ive just gone out and left the same piece in the heat for twice as long as before and it was glowing red this time rather than just the normal cherry...

It's not easy to find but there's still a fair bit to be had if you're prepared to look for it.

Cherry, glowing red, then yellow. For forge welding, you ideally want to be bright yellow and that is tricky to achieve with a smaller gas forge.

Things will improve massively when you start using an anvil. Even a big sheet of 10mm is not going to give you anything like the response you get from an anvil. Smack it as hard as you can with a hammer and it will dent and the hammer might rebound a tiny bit. Do the same on an anvil and the hammer will embed itself in the ceiling assuming it doesn't go through your head.

 

[Jackimus]

It's not easy to find but there's still a fair bit to be had if you're prepared to look for it.

Cherry, glowing red, then yellow. For forge welding, you ideally want to be bright yellow and that is tricky to achieve with a smaller gas forge.

Things will improve massively when you start using an anvil. Even a big sheet of 10mm is not going to give you anything like the response you get from an anvil. Smack it as hard as you can with a hammer and it will dent and the hammer might rebound a tiny bit. Do the same on an anvil and the hammer will embed itself in the ceiling assuming it doesn't go through your head.

I really got taken by surprise my first time using an anvil. Missed a strike and the hammer came back up at me about as fast as it went down.

 

[BrokenBiker]

It's not easy to find but there's still a fair bit to be had if you're prepared to look for it.

Cherry, glowing red, then yellow. For forge welding, you ideally want to be bright yellow and that is tricky to achieve with a smaller gas forge.

Things will improve massively when you start using an anvil. Even a big sheet of 10mm is not going to give you anything like the response you get from an anvil. Smack it as hard as you can with a hammer and it will dent and the hammer might rebound a tiny bit. Do the same on an anvil and the hammer will embed itself in the ceiling assuming it doesn't go through your head.

anvil is on order, will be here tuesday ish...only small but if it makes that much difference then it will be worth it and i may upgrade to a larger one in time. see how i get on and how often i want to use it.

ive got some steel coming for a set of tongs, and ive got coil springs here that i would like to use to make a kiridashi, possibly a small knife and maybe some punches. the anvil has a hardy hole so ideally would want a cut off tool and a set of spring fullers too but plenty of time for that.

 

[Screwdriver]

I really got taken by surprise my first time using an anvil. Missed a strike and the hammer came back up at me about as fast as it went down.

That video is the first time I tested my new-to-me anvil. Second strike really caught me by surprise - you can see how I react.

In a later vid I do a ball bearing test and as you say, it's right up there, almost a perfect rebound, easily 90%.