max amps question

[cable5one]

so I am looking to get into welding as was wondering about amps in vs amps out.
I have a 32 amp spur [to supply an electric cooker] it also has a stander 3 pin UK socket on the spur, the welder I am looking at buying is 200 amp, so my question is what is the max I amps I could safely run or standard 13a plug? and would it be safe to add stronger fuse wire in the 13a plug?

 

[MetalMonkey]

so I am looking to get into welding as was wondering about amps in vs amps out.
I have a 32 amp spur [to supply an electric cooker] it also has a stander 3 pin UK socket on the spur, the welder I am looking at buying is 200 amp, so my question is what is the max I amps I could safely run or standard 13a plug?

It depends on the welder. But in general you should get ~140A of welding out of a 13A plugtop.

and would it be safe to add stronger fuse wire in the 13a plug?

No. Absolutely not.

If you need a larger supply and you aren't using the cooker circuit for a cooker, you could get a commando socket installed on this instead which would give you a 32A connection for the welder. Assuming that's what it wants.
Or you could have an additional circuit breaker installed in your consumer unit, providing you have sufficient spare ways and depending on the age and condition of the installation.
Consult an electrician is probably the best advice.

 

[cable5one]

yer did think stronger fuse wire was not a good idea, but thought I'd ask, adding any new socket is not an option [the property is rented] the welder is supplied with a 13a plug apparently

 

[sg66]

What are you planning on welding as a newb that is going to require more than a 13amp supply

 

[tigdlo]

I run my 200amp inverter TIG rated at 16amp effective current at max from a 13amp plug with a 13amp fuse, fine for short runs and have never blown a fuse, it might do long runs too but I have never tried. Not all welders will and they aren't all rated in the same way, do you have a link for the welder?

 

[cable5one]

I run my 200amp inverter TIG rated at 16amp effective current at max from a 13amp plug with a 13amp fuse, fine for short runs and have never blown a fuse, it might do long runs too but I have never tried. Not all welders will and they aren't all rated in the same way, do you have a link for the welder?

I'm considering the hitbox syn mig200

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

I used to run two compressors off my cooker switch 13A outlet, it would only occasionally blow the fuse. Ok for occasional use.

 

[Erie Fred]

What are you planning on welding as a newb that is going to require more than a 13amp supply

I'm considering the hitbox syn mig200

Again, why do you need to run so many amps ?

 

[Jack Ryan]

As a matter of interest, are welding machines like these approved for electrical connection in the UK?

There is no sign of a specification for I1eff. It might be on the plate (if it has one) on the machine, but it is not on the WEB site or in the manual.

The consumption won't be small because of the low power factor. An estimate of I1eff based on the rated input current (MIG) of 36.0A and duty cycle of 25% would be 18A so I would expect using it at full throttle wouldn't be possible. It would probably start tripping once you got over 140A.

That would get you started but, depending on what you want to weld, the synergic programme might have other ideas.

Edit: I am assuming that it will get past the influx current so that you can get started on the 13A supply.

Jack

 

[cable5one]

Again, why do you need to run so many amps

it's not about the amps, its about the synergic programme, bit more beginner friendly

 

[cable5one]

As a matter of interest, are welding machines like these approved for electrical connection in the UK?

There is no sign of a specification for I1eff. It might be on the plate (if it has one) on the machine, but it is not on the WEB site or in the manual.

The consumption won't be small because of the low power factor. An estimate of I1eff based on the rated input current (MIG) of 36.0A and duty cycle of 25% would be 18A so I would expect using it at full throttle wouldn't be possible. It would probably start tripping once you got over 140A.

That would get you started but, depending on what you want to weld, the synergic programme might have other ideas.

Edit: I am assuming that it will get past the influx current so that you can get started on the 13A supply.

Jack

what do you mean "the synergic programme might have other ideas"?

 

[Erie Fred]

it's not about the amps, its about the synergic programme, bit more beginner friendly

"so my question is what is the max I amps I could safely run or standard 13a plug?":

 

[Turbo]

It will also depend on whether it's a transformer or inverter based welder.
Generally speaking an inverter machine is more efficient and you'll get higher welding amps from a 13a plug compared to a transformer unit.

But to be safe you need to install a 32a commando socket on that cooker circuit using suitably rated cable.

 

[Jack Ryan]

It will also depend on whether it's a transformer or inverter based welder.
Generally speaking an inverter machine is more efficient and you'll get higher welding amps from a 13a plug compared to a transformer unit.

But to be safe you need to install a 32a commando socket on that cooker circuit using suitably rated cable.

A 200A transformer machine wouldn't start on a 13A circuit.

But this is an inverter.

what do you mean "the synergic programme might have other ideas"?

You don't have direct control of the parameters so it is more difficult to apply limits.

It depends on the type and quality of the synergic control. It might not be an issue at all.

Jack

 

[Jack Ryan]

"so my question is what is the max I amps I could safely run or standard 13a plug?":

The maximum number of amps is quite high. It is a matter of how long are those amps drawn for. If you push the duty cycle, the maximum gets less.

Assuming the welder will start (modest inrush current), you can probably weld at 140A within the specified duty cycle without tripping the breaker. I guess that's a mild steel thickness of 4 to 5mm.

UK plugs have fuses in them - I don't know what their equivalent "trip curve" is.

Jack

 

[trigger3]

heres a few things to know. breakers dont all act the same. your neighbors 13a socket may trip sooner than yours with the same machine welding at the same amps. also , the cheaper less expensive machines are much less efficient in the top end of its amp range than a high class machine. this meens the cheaper machines typically blow fuses far sooner and more often than a high class machine. that may not matter if your not trying to push the machine hard and stay out of the top end limit

 

[BrokenBiker]

Just to add my experience to this...the only welder I've ever had that's tripped a breaker or blown a plug top fuse is an ancient 100 amp stick welder that had ground faults...

I have had a 100 amp sealey gasless, a 160 amps CWS inverter mig, a 181 inverter parweld stick, a cheap second hand unbranded 200amp mig that I currently have set at full whack on 0.8mm gasless wire so probably around 160 amps, and a 200 amp inverter tig that is probably also set at full whack at 200 amps on AC the last time inused it...the 2 current welders are being run off a 50 meter extension lead at full power and don't ever trip the breaker or blow fuses (except an internal fuse on the mig, but I feel that was due to moisture issues)...

The 100amp gasless was run off the electricin a council flat, the 181 stick and the 160 mig were run at my first house and a completely different property to the 200 mig and tigs that I have now, and the 200 mig has been run at approx 8 properties and never tripped a thing, it's my go to 'portable' welder as a spool of gasless made it quite easy to transport without lugging a bottle about, although now that's probably replaced with the tig as its lighter

Now, to be added to this, whenever I get a welder the first thing I do is generally change the input cable for the next size up and fit a blue 240v plug (as that stops people wanting to borrow stuff if they can't plug it in) so that 'may' have an effect, however the tig hasn't been touched as I was paranoid about failure (see previous Chinese tig post) so that has been left completely standard and hasn't given an issue yet, granted its an inverter, but it's usually on its limits also.