Keg S-Type

[Brad93]

My FIL bought a keg which he thought would be a cheap way of buying some beer which he likes.

Unfortunately he had not considered getting beer out of said keg.

It's a S-type.

I believe it will require a connector with a gas inlet and a bottle of co2, plus some means of pouring at the other end. All in a hundred quid plus. AKA, not very cheap anymore!

He has since found this on amazon...

Do they work, is it safe, keg would need to go in a bucket of ice to chill it i presume as isn't that what the CO2 normally achieves?

 

[hotponyshoes]

That's a hand pump, also known as a party pump.

They are safe enough to use.
Dispensing depends on what beer he has got?

In a 'proper' set-up:

The beer in the Keg will be carbonated.
Larger will be more carbonated (more fizzy) than real ale.
On a new/full Keg there will be a little bit of gas space above the liquid.
It's the pressure of this gas that pushes the beer out of the keg.
As the liquid level drops the gas space increases (so looses pressure)
You put in c02 (or another gas) to fill this increasing space.
This maintains enough gas pressure to keep pushing beer out.
More importantly, it keeps the existing c02 inside the beer and stops it going flat.

The hand pumps pump in air rather than c02.
So they will give enough pressure to push the beer out but the remaining beer will loose/ leach c02 into that air so it will go flat. Real ales will also react with the dirty air going in and will go off.
That's why those hand gadgets are called party pumps. They are fine if you want to get all the beer out on a single day.
You won't get away with using one on an 88 pint keg if you only drink 2 pints a night. The beer will be flat or spoiled within a week or so.

The c02 doesn't cool the beer. In a pub you would chill the whole keg in the cellar (refrigerated room) down to about 10-12c.
Real ales would be served at that temperature.
Lager/cider would run through an additional heat exchanger (chiller) in the cellar to reduce again to 5-6c.
The super-cool lager would then go through yer another chiller at the bar to take it down to 2-3c.

For the party pump, unless you have a big fridge, the whole keg goes into a bucket filled with iced water. Basically, fill something with water, add ice cubes. Keep adding ice until the ice stops melting quickly then top up the ice every hour or so.

To do it 'properly'
You'll need the keg connector, gas & Regulator, a beer tap, the pipework & connectors and some sort of chiller.
The exact parts you need (for the best results) depend on the beer you have.
That also locks you into that beer slightly as a lager system won't be the same as a real ale system or a gunniness system for example.

Apart from the chiller and gas bottle the rest of the parts should be well under £100.

If it's a home set-up you can make various types of DIY chiller. The simple ones are just a coil of metal tube that sits inside a fridge.
Make the volume of the coil hold about 1.5 times the amount of beer you plan to drink in a day for a passive system.
You can increase dispense volume with a fan to blow cold air across the coils or sit the coil in a bigger container of chilled water.
If the alcohol content is above about 5% you can run the coil in a freezer.
You'll need to do regular maintenance though as the lines will need cleaning regularly.

Personally, for home drinking, I'd take the keg back and swap it for cans!

 

[colnerov]

All that for a 'swift half' on the way home.

 

[hotponyshoes]

All that for a 'swift half' on the way home.

Probably easier to set up that lot than it is to find a decent pub that's still open nowadays...

 

[Kram]

Lager/cider would run through an additional heat exchanger (chiller) in the cellar to reduce again to 5-6c.
The super-cool lager would then go through yer another chiller at the bar to take it down to 2-3c.

And the reason I cant drink the stuff. Fizzy cold water. Cold enough that it has no taste, too cold to drink.

When I buy cider in bottles or cans I generally decant and flatten it into another bottle. The amount of carbonarion can be a bit silly!

A solution to the keg problem and spoilage would be to decant it into bottles, filled to the top with no air space.

 

[hotponyshoes]

A solution to the keg problem and spoilage would be to decant it into bottles, filled to the top with no air space.

The silly thing is, unless you buy a short-date keg from a wholesalers or pay cash at the back door or a brewery, it's usually cheaper to buy it already in bottles from a supermarket.

A bottle won't taste as good as a fresh pint from a well-run pub but will probably taste better than a month-old keg that's been sat in your conservatory.

 

[Kram]

I realise people have different tastes and some people like fizz, mostly children.

I've had speckled hen cans decanted into a 2L bottle and a month later they taste perfectly good but somewhat less carbonated, which was my intention. Im sure if you dont shake it, much of the carbonation would remain.

 

[drjim]

Using that pump will introduce air and make the beer taste very stale and oxidised.

Good if you are necking the whole lot at a party, not if it needs to last more than a day.

I have some sanke S couplers that are surplus to requirements, in fact some spare taps and hoses. Suggest switch to PM.

You can get an adaptor for a sodastream bottle, or just get a cylinder of CO2 from somewhere. Obviously need a regulator too.

 

[Blobber]

I realise people have different tastes and some people like fizz, mostly children.

 

[Erie Fred]

Post #2 is spot on to what goes on "over here", have many friends that do drink, some to extreme....
They tell me the party one using the air pump, the beer will go off by the next day or 2.

You need a "Kegerator Kit".

Amazon.com : kegerator kit

That's the keg connector, a 5lb co2 bottle, some hoses, and the dispensing spigot
which you install by drilling a hole in the door of the fridge.

Friend has this, says a keg keeps for a long time. Buys expensive Canadian beer.

I saw one at a garage sale for $3 complete with 5lb. (the kit)
I swung by the next day and it was now curbside for free. Kept the bottle for MIG welding, and gave away the rest.

FWIW my CO2 supplier also sells a mix with nitrogen, says it's for the stout crowd (but you probably already know this) so depending on what beer, might get a bit more complicated.

 

[piman]

Brad,

if there is to be a future purchase, buy a cask rather than a keg, they need little equipment which the brewer will normally loan to you and explain how you use and decant the beer. It will probably limit your choice a little over keg beers but will last for a few days before it goes off.
Also, ask for it 'Bright' this means there is no sediment and you will not need to let it stand for some time as with a natural cask.

Alec

 

[Onoff]

And the reason I cant drink the stuff. Fizzy cold water. Cold enough that it has no taste, too cold to drink.

Come to my pub, real ale from Westerhams and drunk ambient. Tbh the thick stone walls of the place keep it pretty constant.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Brad,

if there is to be a future purchase, buy a cask rather than a keg, they need little equipment which the brewer will normally loan to you and explain how you use and decant the beer. It will probably limit your choice a little over keg beers but will last for a few days before it goes off.
Also, ask for it 'Bright' this means there is no sediment and you will not need to let it stand for some time as with a natural cask.

Alec

You will still only get a few days of good beer though. By the end of the week a bottle will taste better than your £100 cask.

Bag-in-box will last slightly longer as the bag collapses as the beer comes out so you don't let any air in.
You'll probably have to buy at least 36 pints of the same beer though!
B-i-b's also come in smaller 18 and 5 pint sizes although not many brewery's seem to do them.
The variety of home-drinking options is continually improving so worth popping into your local brewer and asking what they suggest as a lot of them have more options 'behind the counter' than they have on the shelves.

 

[Onoff]

I used to have a Rotokeg but never got on with it. This was like 45 years ago when I was a kid. The idea was rather than individually bottle a 40 pint kit you'd put it in this. Atop was a pressure relief valve and inlet for a CO2 bottle.

It had like a float beer take off that sat atop the liquid as it went down. As the beer went down a CO2 layer sat on top keeping it fresh & carbonated.

I always had sealing problems. Seem to recall they advocated using a smear of Vaseline around the rubber seals. Put two batches in it that spoiled so gave up.

I see they still do it. I must have been doing something wrong. I was I think about 12:

Rotokeg

Holds 5 Gallons (23 litres) and comes with a large lid (which allows you to get your hand in to clean) complete with a Hambleton Bard S30 valve. The valve is designed to allow extra gas (pressure) to be inserted into the barrel and also allows release of excess pressure that might build up...

www.lovebrewing.co.uk

 

[julianthegypsy]

I used to have a Rotokeg but never got on with it. This was like 45 years ago when I was a kid. The idea was rather than individually bottle a 40 pint kit you'd put it in this. Atop was a pressure relief valve and inlet for a CO2 bottle.

It had like a float beer take off that sat atop the liquid as it went down. As the beer went down a CO2 layer sat on top keeping it fresh & carbonated.

I always had sealing problems. Seem to recall they advocated using a smear of Vaseline around the rubber seals. Put two batches in it that spoiled so gave up.

I see they still do it. I must have been doing something wrong. I was I think about 12:

Rotokeg

Holds 5 Gallons (23 litres) and comes with a large lid (which allows you to get your hand in to clean) complete with a Hambleton Bard S30 valve. The valve is designed to allow extra gas (pressure) to be inserted into the barrel and also allows release of excess pressure that might build up...

www.lovebrewing.co.uk

I had one of those years ago and got very good results with it. Never had a bad batch and it kept well too.

 

[Guineafowl]

Brad,

if there is to be a future purchase, buy a cask rather than a keg, they need little equipment which the brewer will normally loan to you and explain how you use and decant the beer. It will probably limit your choice a little over keg beers but will last for a few days before it goes off.
Also, ask for it 'Bright' this means there is no sediment and you will not need to let it stand for some time as with a natural cask.

Alec

I’ve got one, but mainly use Cornelius kegs. Dispense kit readily available from homebrew suppliers, gas from Hobbybrew, same as Hobbyweld. Pressurise to about 12 psi for pure CO2, and you’ll need about 2m of narrow bore 3/16” beer line to control the froth. I prefer 60/40 CO2/N mix.

If you want the cask to last longer, you can get a gas valve for the top, which lets in CO2 to equalise.

 

[julianthegypsy]

There's a keg now I believe that has a plastic bag in it, so you pump air in and it inflates the bag to push the beer put, so the beer doesn't have contact with the air stays fresh longer. Wish I could remember the name of them!

 

[hotponyshoes]

There's a keg now I believe that has a plastic bag in it, so you pump air in and it inflates the bag to push the beer put, so the beer doesn't have contact with the air stays fresh longer. Wish I could remember the name of them!

keykeg and polykeg are a couple, probably others.
I don't know any brewers that use them.

 

[brewdexta]

I use co2 in cornelius kegs to keep beer fresh, it last months that way. Low pressure so it doesn't carbonate it much so it's not over fizzy like carp keg lager when served.

 

[Erie Fred]

I use co2 in cornelius kegs to keep beer fresh, it last months that way. Low pressure so it doesn't carbonate it much so it's not over fizzy like carp keg lager when served.

For reference, over here the carbonated soft drink fountains run 60 psi in the carbonator chamber.
As you only need enough pressure to dispense the beer, getting by as low as possible
(as you are doing) doesn't add carbonation nearly as much if any at all.