What lathe to look for

[BrokenBiker]

right then people, bit of advice time.

ive got the lifting, loading and transport sorted, providing i can split the lathe off the table its attached to (more as a last resort really, id rather keep it whole but getting it on a flat bed van may prove tricky), so my question is, what tools will i need to take a smart and brown model A tool room lathe off the table it came with? i believe its a mk1, might be a mk2, cant really get much info about it as the guy selling it is the son in law of the previous owner and openly admits he hasnt got a clue, which is better than him trying to blag his way through it i suppose.

im assuming (dangerous i know) its just going to be bolted through from underneath, maybe some pipes to contend with from its oil pump/coolant etc and a belt from the motor.
i have nothing in the way of imperial tooling, but adjustable spanners a plenty

is there anything i need to be aware of re: splitting it apart? wasnt planning on buying anything this side of going on holiday, but cant refuse this

the only photo i have of it

also, there is some documentation so i am hoping the manual is with it and im really hoping the metric change wheels are there too, but assuming neither are, does anyone know where i can get a manual so i can find what changewheels i need to convert the gearbox to metric threading? its a 1" 6tpi lead screw, thats about all i know at the moment

 

[brightspark]

True, but getting up close'ish to a large spinning chuck to see what you're doing, when you're doing fine work, is no fun.

We all have moments where a larger lathe would be handy, but one has to draw the line somewhere.

i have both wouldnt bother using the large one for doing small parts its a balls ache

 

[iNf]

Nice well equipped lathe by the looks. Dividing head alone worth a bit. I presume you've looked on lathes.co.uk? Due to the motor being in the base it would be a lot easier to move as one. This link might be helpful, sounds like you just need a 127t gear for metric threads upto 2mm https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/smart-brown-model-a/
https://www.smartandbrownlathes.com/our-lathes/a-model-lathe/

 

[BrokenBiker]

Nice well equipped lathe by the looks. Dividing head alone worth a bit. I presume you've looked on lathes.co.uk? Due to the motor being in the base it would be a lot easier to move as one. This link might be helpful, sounds like you just need a 127t gear for metric threads upto 2mm https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/smart-brown-model-a/
https://www.smartandbrownlathes.com/our-lathes/a-model-lathe/

yeah have had a look on the lathes.co.uk page and got a lot of infor from there.

if i can keep it in 1 piece it would be ideal, but knowing the height of our vans im not 100% sure it will go in 1 piece, but that will be my first attempt.

im hoping that if it does need to be split, the belt will be the only major thing that needs removing. that said, its 3 phase and potentially has a VFD so im not sure how thats mounted.

thanks for the link, will give it a look over later

 

[Gregb23]

right then people, bit of advice time.

ive got the lifting, loading and transport sorted, providing i can split the lathe off the table its attached to (more as a last resort really, id rather keep it whole but getting it on a flat bed van may prove tricky), so my question is, what tools will i need to take a smart and brown model A tool room lathe off the table it came with? i believe its a mk1, might be a mk2, cant really get much info about it as the guy selling it is the son in law of the previous owner and openly admits he hasnt got a clue, which is better than him trying to blag his way through it i suppose.

im assuming (dangerous i know) its just going to be bolted through from underneath, maybe some pipes to contend with from its oil pump/coolant etc and a belt from the motor.
i have nothing in the way of imperial tooling, but adjustable spanners a plenty

is there anything i need to be aware of re: splitting it apart? wasnt planning on buying anything this side of going on holiday, but cant refuse this

the only photo i have of it
View attachment 495674

also, there is some documentation so i am hoping the manual is with it and im really hoping the metric change wheels are there too, but assuming neither are, does anyone know where i can get a manual so i can find what changewheels i need to convert the gearbox to metric threading? its a 1" 6tpi lead screw, thats about all i know at the moment

Looks like a MK1 as the controls are on the left of the base. Easiest tell is the back gear style in the headstock as I believe some model As were a mish mash of MK1 and 2.
The blue document in that photo is the closest you'll get to a manual, has all the drawings for the lathe itself though. Not sure it has details on change wheels. If you're lucky the change wheels will be in the base cabinet on the bottom right.

They're chuffing heavy, I winched my MK1 into the trailer as one unit. Can't help with splitting other than it'll be a bit of a faff.

Coolant pipes are external from memory and the coolant tray and pump can be removed from the base, excluding wiring.

 

[indy4x]

@BrokenBiker you are just down the road from me, I have an 8x4 twin axle trailer that will carry over 2T

Where is the lathe?

You're welcome to borrow the trailer, less faff than stripping the bed off to get it in a van

 

[mr haynes]

Trailer most likely your easiest solution to loading and unloading.

This was mine, loaded by 2 old sods and unloaded by one

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

IMO removing the bed from the cabinet is not worth it relative to finding a different transport option.

The process of removing and reinstalling the main body of the lathe from its cabinet provides an additional opportunity to accidentally introduce a twist to the lathe bed when tightening it down on reinstallation, which will be a bugger to chase down (assuming you have access to a suitable machinists level to do so).

If it wasn't a particularly good lathe, maybe that disturbance wouldn't matter, but the S&B model A *is* a very good lathe, and you do stand to lose something that will take ages to re-establish by disturbing it...

yeah have had a look on the lathes.co.uk page and got a lot of infor from there.

if i can keep it in 1 piece it would be ideal, but knowing the height of our vans im not 100% sure it will go in 1 piece, but that will be my first attempt.

The Lathe is about 1220mm tall, and the shortest transits have 1350mm of height.

If you're using a forklift to load/unload it should be pretty straightforward, just use skids that are less than 5" thick and you're grand.

If you are using a hiab or engine crane you will need to get creative with your slinging...

I faced this issue getting a Harrison mill in and out of a low roof transit, and it all comes down to finding a way to place the hook below the top of the machine.

There's two points on the cabinet to insert a bar (25mm mild steel will be more than adequate) for slinging.

To get the hook below the headstock, you will most likely need to:

- remove the tailstock and move the carriage all the way to the far end to get it out of harms way.

Then, either:

- sling the late with shorter straps at the front and longer straps at the back to avoid the straps coming tight over the leadscrew (and breaking it), like this:

(Short front slings blue, long rear slings green)

It will take some messing about to get the strap lengths adjusted correctly, at which point some amount of manhandling the suspended lathe to get it flat will be required to get it into the van.

Or

You can use two wooden bearers against the bed which will protrude past the lead-screw, (ideally held in place by a cam-strap or some rope) and then let your straps sit directly against them.

Something like this:

(Slings in purple, dotted lines at rear, wooden bearers brown).

Very do-able but it takes some patience to get the slings set up right, and creativity in how you connect them to the bars to shorten them off enough, but not too much to get the right length.


Alternatively you can use a ramp and winch it.

Either (kinda) "professionally" with a big metal ramp and a proper winch (assuming you don't have one mounted in the back of the van, rent or scrounge a tirfor for the day).

Or sketchily with a ramp made out of roof timbers salvaged from a neighbour demolishing part of their roof, and use an old climbing rope to build a mechanical advantage system with prussik's for hauling on, and a munter hitch (italian hitch) to lower off...

(That welder weighs around 550kg, which is only one fat bloke less less than the S&B at 700kg).

@BrokenBiker you are just down the road from me, I have an 8x4 twin axle trailer that will carry over 2T

Where is the lathe?

You're welcome to borrow the trailer, less faff than stripping the bed off to get it in a van

This is by far the most sensible option, with no overhead restrictions you can easily sling on two bars and hoist with ease.

 

[Agroshield]

...it all comes down to finding a way to place the hook below the top of the machine.

It can be done with the hook above the roof of the van.

If we draw a vertical line on one of your diagrams representing the hook/chain. It will be slightly in front of the lathe chuck as the last picture of the green one. That means there is enough of the lathe projecting to rest the headstock end on the floor of the van, with the chain just brushing the rubber at the top of the door opening.

If you make the headstock pair of slings adjustable in length, as soon as it lands in the van, you can start lengthening/slackening these while winching it into the van and adjusting the crane to suit.

In concrete works, there is a system called 'table forms'. You cast the slab on top of them and then remove them from under the slab once it has set, called flying the tables. The crane is always overhead. Putting an item in a van is the opposite of this process.

See:

ULMA Form Works, Inc. introduces its new shoring system: VR-L Table, Large Modular Flying Tableform | ULMA

The system is designed to boost productivity at the job site, lower labor costs, and reduce safety concerns.

www.ulmaconstruction.com

and note the adjustable sling (winch) on what was the 'inside' of the table.

It may be clearer from about 3:38 to 6:50 here:

Effectively you are doing that in reverse. Play the video backwards from 6:50 to 3:38. At 6:33 you can see the winch adjusting the balance so the back of the table is lifted off the slab.

A way to move the balance point towards the tailstock would be to hang some weights (4 x 25l drums of water) at the tailstock end. That would give more length of cabinet in the van before the chain touches the top of the door opening. Then you remove the drums, which 'seats' the headstock even more firmly into the vehicle.

 

[Gregb23]

I'll just add that the MK1 doesn't have the holes for the bar to go through the base. The method according to the manual is a chunky block of wood under the ways. Can just about see it here.

Can also see how the coolant tank fits.