Lift tig torch

[Alabamavw]

Does anyone know if it's possible to get a lift tig torch with a button for the gas rather than a thumb dial?

Iv got a mig, a couple actually but I'm considering getting a small mma machine to have a potter around with as always fancied giving tig a go! I know they are far from ideal and if be better with a HF tig but I want to see if I can somewhat master it before spending more money on something I either can't get the hang of or just don't use.

My main concern is I'm forgetful and I just know I won't turn the valve off when iv finished something.

Thanks all and sorry if it's been asked a 1000 times- I couldn't find anything.

 

[Robert Weaver]

The arc is initiated by the machine, not the torch. Any torch with a button could be wired to do what you need. However, the gas supply will need a solenoid valve inside the machine, which might not be present in simple inverter tig boxes. You would need to add a valve and suitable power supply connected to the torch button. be safe and use low voltage, not mains voltage to the torch.

 

[Alabamavw]

The arc is initiated by the machine, not the torch. Any torch with a button could be wired to do what you need. However, the gas supply will need a solenoid valve inside the machine, which might not be present in simple inverter tig boxes. You would need to add a valve and suitable power supply connected to the torch button. be safe and use low voltage, not mains voltage to the torch.

The typical lift tig torch iv seen has a turn valve on the torch and you have to turn it on and off manually- I'm hoping to find a torch that has a button for the gas valve rather than the dial so it kills the flow as soon as you release it. I know the basics of how the welding function works, it's just the gas control I'd prefer to be different it I can find it

 

[Alabamavw]

I get what you mean, the same basic idea of putting a euro torch on a mig- I'll look into that and see if there's a machine that has a low power output on the board

 

[Robert Weaver]

I've not seen such a torch with a push button valve in the handle itself. Some mig torches have a manual gas valve behind the trigger, you'll probably need to fabricate something yourself.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've seen quite a few tig torches and I've never seen one.

I've not even seen any push button gas valves that I recall?

You can get pneumatic push buttons but I don't know of any compact enough to fit in a torch.
Lego technics might have something to test the principle but won't last long.

The torches on the budget migs have a valve activated (mechanically) by the trigger.
You might be able to either use the valve or swap the mig neck for tig parts?
Sounds like a lot of fiddle work though.

What's the price difference between a budget arc machine with lift tig and a budget hf start tig?
I'd think most budget hf tigs will also do arc and probably have a better resale value if you decide not to keep using it.

 

[Alabamavw]

I've seen quite a few tig torches and I've never seen one.

I've not even seen any push button gas valves that I recall?

You can get pneumatic push buttons but I don't know of any compact enough to fit in a torch.
Lego technics might have something to test the principle but won't last long.

The torches on the budget migs have a valve activated (mechanically) by the trigger.
You might be able to either use the valve or swap the mig neck for tig parts?
Sounds like a lot of fiddle work though.

What's the price difference between a budget arc machine with lift tig and a budget hf start tig?
I'd think most budget hf tigs will also do arc and probably have a better resale value if you decide not to keep using it.

I'm starting to think I'd be better off just buying a cheap HF set- I was thinking of buying a Thermal arc set of I got on with it ok as that's what the guys at work have always had and they have been reliable- it's unfortunate because a year ago I could have had a go with one in the workshop but all our engineering has recently been outsourced and everything has been moved to a new dedicated building

 

[chrismac]

Does anyone know if it's possible to get a lift tig torch with a button for the gas rather than a thumb dial?

Iv got a mig, a couple actually but I'm considering getting a small mma machine to have a potter around with as always fancied giving tig a go! I know they are far from ideal and if be better with a HF tig but I want to see if I can somewhat master it before spending more money on something I either can't get the hang of or just don't use.

My main concern is I'm forgetful and I just know I won't turn the valve off when iv finished something.

Thanks all and sorry if it's been asked a 1000 times- I couldn't find anything.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lift tig, if you want to press a button for the torch gas to be initiated do you want it to be like press button gas on press button gas off, thats complicated and needs some of electronics to work, if you just want to push a button to allow gas to flow, same electronics required if a solenoid is to be used, but if your thinking you can just get a button press to allow a valve to open and let gas through, to be honest it wont work as you will need to move your hand on the torch at some point to get into a better position,

you will be cheaper getting a 2nd hand tig machine with slope up and slope down with gas on and off than an additional tig HF unit, unless you can get one 2nd hand for buttons, they are available if you can get one. new they are very expensive.

I had my eye on this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135292653031?itmmeta=01JNPR6H2Z8WK1E36W41C4Z6EC&hash=item1f80120de7 its the preferred machine of your choice too.

 

[hotponyshoes]

You could add an external solonide if you wanted. Even pre and post flow with a couple of timers and a latch as well if required.

But, you'll either pay a fair wack ordering all the parts, or spend hours sourcing them cheaply.

The only advantage with that is you could use a hf start tig torch which you could keep for another machine if you upgrade.

As mentioned above, nothing wrong with lift tig. But, personally, I find it quickly gets annoying, can be tricky to get a start in an awarkard location, and not having to turn the gas on/off is a big benefit.

 

[Alabamavw]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lift tig, if you want to press a button for the torch gas to be initiated do you want it to be like press button gas on press button gas off, thats complicated and needs some of electronics to work, if you just want to push a button to allow gas to flow, same electronics required if a solenoid is to be used, but if your thinking you can just get a button press to allow a valve to open and let gas through, to be honest it wont work as you will need to move your hand on the torch at some point to get into a better position,

you will be cheaper getting a 2nd hand tig machine with slope up and slope down with gas on and off than an additional tig HF unit, unless you can get one 2nd hand for buttons, they are available if you can get one. new they are very expensive.

I had my eye on this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135292653031?itmmeta=01JNPR6H2Z8WK1E36W41C4Z6EC&hash=item1f80120de7 its the preferred machine of your choice too.

I get what you mean about moving - I guess I was thinking it would be something that was already available as its common practice with mig torches.

 

[Alabamavw]

You could add an external solonide if you wanted. Even pre and post flow with a couple of timers and a latch as well if required.

But, you'll either pay a fair wack ordering all the parts, or spend hours sourcing them cheaply.

The only advantage with that is you could use a hf start tig torch which you could keep for another machine if you upgrade.

As mentioned above, nothing wrong with lift tig. But, personally, I find it quickly gets annoying, can be tricky to get a start in an awarkard location, and not having to turn the gas on/off is a big benefit.

That's exactly why I has hesitant to buy either in the first place.

The back story is I used to own a restoration business, got ill and closed it down- I now live with a disability and I still stupidly think I can do everything I did before! Iv bought a couple of projects recently and was thinking about fabricating a few bits on the bench while I'm recovering from a 3 level cervical decompression and caged fusion that's scheduled in a few weeks - thought it would be an ideal time to have a go at things iv never had the time to without wasting the spare time i do get as I won't be able much for quite a while so thought a few on the bench jobs could be a valuable boost to my mental health- achieving something in what's going to be a challenging time

 

[chrismac]

A small pointer for lift tig if you are not already doing it, set the tungsten on (commit) and roll the torch onto the ceramic, breaking the contact (not the tungsten) that way everything is controlled, you can then lift the torch and move in your desired direction,

Good luck getting sorted either with an HF box or machine. There was a HF box on here for sale, I tried to buy it but for some reason the post and al my messages have been removed, I was going to share it with you just incase you were closer to the seller.

 

[jimbo84]

I've got one of the TIG torches for my inverter MMA machine, it's the turn type gas valve and a pain to operate, particularly when you're learning and it's another thing to remember/factor in, I found that anyway, ended up wasting gas.

A move of house meant giving the argon bottle back to the supplier so I've not tried it in a fair while. I intend to try TIG again at some point but I'll fashion some kind of foot switch wired to a gas solenoid between the bottle reg and the torch, press it down and it switches on and gas flows, foot off the switch and it stops.

You'd just need a push to make foot switch, power supply and gas solenoid with the fittings to connect from the reg to the solenoid to the torch, quite a simple set up, your brain/foot is the timer relay.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Does anyone know if it's possible to get a lift tig torch with a button for the gas rather than a thumb dial?

I've not seen one. I'm not even sure if I'd trust one. A valve has a positive off seating, a press button relies on a spring and mechanical centering

I'm considering getting a small mma machine to have a potter around with as always fancied giving tig a go!

Make sure the MMA machine supports lift start. Scratch start is not a good beginner feature (in my opinion).

My main concern is I'm forgetful and I just know I won't turn the valve off when iv finished something.

You could fit an external solenoid (as suggested) but it might be better to get a used machine with a solenoid.

Jack

 

[Agroshield]

From a practical and weld quality point of view, having the gas switch on or off at the touch of a button is going to be difficult.

In a standard set up, where the button controls the welding arc, if your finger slips off the button part way through a weld, the arc just goes out (or ramps down), but the shielding gas keeps flowing. With the gas on the button, the arc would keep going and the gas stop. That will ruin the weld and the tungsten.

Also, at the end of the weld, how would you stop? You'd have to do like scratch start - pull off until the arc breaks, and then come back in quickly to keep gas on the weld until it has cooled, keeping your finger on the button all the time.

As the OP says 'bench work', a solenoid on a foot switch might be a better option. Momentary foot switches are economical (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365447148994); latching ones are also available (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292240792520). 230v solenoids are available (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/296760417034). Hose tails required (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256166614982).

 

[hotponyshoes]

I'm sure you could find a foot switch dirt cheap but surely (as the op doesn't seem to have any sort of tig torch) it would make more sense to buy an hf torch and a realy to use the switch in the torch?

Mainly be because it saves the hassle of a foot pedal but also saves the expense of having to change the torch again if he upgrades to an hf tig?

Admitted, he could keep using the same torch and footswitch with the hf tig if he wanted I suppose.

A small pointer for lift tig if you are not already doing it, set the tungsten on (commit) and roll the torch onto the ceramic, breaking the contact (not the tungsten) that way everything is controlled, you can then lift the torch and move in your desired direction,

Good luck getting sorted either with an HF box or machine. There was a HF box on here for sale, I tried to buy it but for some reason the post and al my messages have been removed, I was going to share it with you just incase you were closer to the seller.

I've got an ac/dc hf tig box in Somerset.

But the op only says he has mig welders.
The add-on boxes run from a transformer type arc welder.
As far as I know they don't run from mig welders or inverter arc welders (not that I've ever looked into this)

Although if the op is anywhere near Somerset I've got a couple of transformer arc machines that would make a compete ac/dc tig setup.

He's not mentioned that he even wants AC tig capabilities though so might be unnecessary expense if he just wants to 'give tig a go'

 

[Misterg]

As the OP says 'bench work', a solenoid on a foot switch might be a better option. Momentary foot switches are economical (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365447148994); latching ones are also available (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292240792520). 230v solenoids are available (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/296760417034). Hose tails required (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256166614982).

Or just use a pneumatic foot switch?

For example:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pneumatic-Momentary-Connectors-Industrial-Equiments/dp/B07JYP6VT4

(Would also need a blanking plug for the un-used port).

I don't think it's a good idea for the reasons cited above (let it off at the wrong time and the tungsten / workpiece will be toast). Probably better than a button on the torch, though.

 

[Agroshield]

...surely (as the op doesn't seem to have any sort of tig torch) it would make more sense to buy an hf torch and a relay to use the switch in the torch?

That would work so long as it was a maintained/latching relay. Then it would be like 4T in a more conventional setup. Press and release to start the gas. Press and release to stop the gas.

What would be nasty is a 2T setup controlling the gas - 2T is OK controlling the _arc_ but having to press the switch continuously to keep the gas flowing will be unpleasant.

Myself, I have never found a torch switch that fits nicely nor is comfortable to operate (I have Wayne Kerr's cramp) and for me, the control wire going back to wherever is also hassle as you then need a sheath on the torch cable to contain it. All I want going to the torch is a superflex cable with a light dirt/abrasion braided sleeve.

Or just use a pneumatic foot switch?

That is a very good idea, best yet. No power needed.

 

[hotponyshoes]

That would work so long as it was a maintained/latching relay. Then it would be like 4T in a more conventional setup. Press and release to start the gas. Press and release to stop the gas.

What would be nasty is a 2T setup controlling the gas - 2T is OK controlling the _arc_ but having to press the switch continuously to keep the gas flowing will be unpleasant.

Myself, I have never found a torch switch that fits nicely nor is comfortable to operate (I have Wayne Kerr's cramp) and for me, the control wire going back to wherever is also hassle as you then need a sheath on the torch cable to contain it. All I want going to the torch is a superflex cable with a light dirt/abrasion braided sleeve.



That is a very good idea, best yet. No power needed.

That's how I like to weld, superflex cable and a foot pedal. My favourite setup for a bit of stainless steel.

Most of my stuff uses a Water-Cooled torch though so the extra wire for the switch is not normally noticeable and is less of a problem than adding in a foot pedal to the mix. Even the wireless pedal is still something else that needs pushing into position.

Lad that did some work for me had issues pressing the torch button. Set him up with a masterweld torch. They have a leaver on (as well as a button) the leaver is supposed to be for up/down power control but it's just a regular switch. I wired all the output wires together so either pressing the button or flicking the leaver did the job.
He got on fine with using the leaver. Only issue I found with it was it was easy to catch the leaver on something if you were dragging the torch across a table..

 

[Agroshield]

Set him up with a masterweld torch.

Thanks. I will have a look.

These ones are now cheap enough to try and see if you get on with them:

Welding Torch Head TIG Torch Body Air Cooled Head Air Cooled Swivel Neck Swivel Welding Head NR-9/NR-17/NR-20 Tig Torch - AliExpress 1420

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

In searching for that, a pencil-style (straight) torch popped up. How do you secure the electrode in one of them as there is no back cap?