Pozidriv screwdrivers recommendation needed.

[Matchless]

I have a lot of tools, my go to screwdrivers are those red or blue handle Stanley? the ones with the hour glass shape handles, they have outlasted all the others! and I do have a lot of (old) tools..........

 

[indy4x]

i had a snapon pozi screwdriver that was worn out .took it to a dealer and he said could only replace it if he bust the end off and duly did in other words if it was fairly worn out its not covered

Ditto

Mine was a flat blade screwdriver the boss had used as a scraper, Snap On man said not broke, it's wear and tear, stuffed it in his vice, cracked the tip off and then replaced the blade

 

[Jack Ryan]

I'm bikeless now, but sometimes use the JIS drivers on PZ's as they have grippier tips and less likely to cam out

JIS is a standards organisation. Are you saying that you use PZ drivers that conform to the JIS standard?

PH drivers that conform to JIS B 4633 (often called a JIS screwdriver) also conform to ISO 8764-1, ISO 8764-2 as the standards have merged, in my view, in favour of the JIS standard.

Even so, I think Vessel make a better Phillips screwdriver than most others.

Jack

 

[grim_d]

Hoffmann you'll get 20% off your first order and they're very reasonable. I picked up a set of 3 pozi, 3 phillips, 8 flat, 7 torx and 2 plus/minus for about £120

Hoffman don't sell north of the border. I had an account but it's entirely useless to the point they just deactivated it.

Had to get stuff from them via a distributor.

 

[Tangledfeet]

JIS is a standards organisation. Are you saying that you use PZ drivers that conform to the JIS standard?

PH drivers that conform to JIS B 4633 (often called a JIS screwdriver) also conform to ISO 8764-1, ISO 8764-2 as the standards have merged, in my view, in favour of the JIS standard.

Even so, I think Vessel make a better Phillips screwdriver than most others.

Jack

Without knowing the standards or compatibilities I was under the impression that Vessel JIS screwdrivers are shaped differently and, from my own experience, come into their own when used with the smaller screws found on Shimano bicycle components - front and rear derailleurs especially.

 

[Climber]

Without knowing the standards or compatibilities I was under the impression that Vessel JIS screwdrivers are shaped differently and, from my own experience, come into their own when used with the smaller screws found on Shimano bicycle components - front and rear derailleurs especially.

I'm embarrassed to say that after messing about with bikes for more decades than I care to think about, I never knew that Shimano used JIS. Thank you.

 

[Tangledfeet]

I'm embarrassed to say that after messing about with bikes for more decades than I care to think about, I never knew that Shimano used JIS. Thank you.

Aye, its the wee adjustment screws! The JIS screwdrivers are a revelation for them.

 

[Climber]

Aye, its the wee adjustment screws! The JIS screwdrivers are a revelation for them.

The very second I read your post, I twigged. Those adjustment screws have always looked a little odd, but I've never given it much thought. Now I think about it, I've always thought they looked like a shallow phillips screw, but never put 2 and 2 together to get JIS.
Today, I have learned something ( after about 4 decades of using the wrong driver).

 

[cheb]

JIS heads are identifiable by the dot next to the cross shaped recess, PH don't have one.

 

[cheb]

All you never wanted to know but were forced to find out:

List of screw drives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mick Annick]

Hoffmann you'll get 20% off your first order and they're very reasonable. I picked up a set of 3 pozi, 3 phillips, 8 flat, 7 torx and 2 plus/minus for about £120

Just tried but trade only here

 

[Climber]

JIS heads are identifiable by the dot next to the cross shaped recess, PH don't have one.

Well that's an anti-climax. I went out to check my new found knowledge and all the adjustment screws on the bike I've got easy access to are hex (reasonably modern 1 x 11 Deore).

 

[Domdom]

JIS is a standards organisation. Are you saying that you use PZ drivers that conform to the JIS standard?

JIS is that particular standard - talking about JIS screws and drivers. The Japanese standards for industry (over 9000 of them) are like British Standards. BS is maintained by BSI, JIS is maintained by the Japanese Industrial Standards Committee.

The JIS crosspoint screws need a JIS compliant screwdriver. Neither Pozidriv or Phillips are the same shape. Yes, they can be used but cam out is a problem. Both Phillips and Pozidriv are designed to allow cam out at high torques to prevent "alleged" damage to the screw. We all know that is a fallacy though. JIS does not have this feature so it is entirely possible (easy) to break the screw long before the screwdriver loses its grip.

 

[arther dailey]

All you never wanted to know but were forced to find out:

List of screw drives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

wow , I have been using philips in posidrive for ever !

 

[Jack Ryan]

Without knowing the standards or compatibilities I was under the impression that Vessel JIS screwdrivers are shaped differently and, from my own experience, come into their own when used with the smaller screws found on Shimano bicycle components - front and rear derailleurs especially.

Standards specify tolerances so there are variations within the standard. There are also drivers that don't comply at all.

Vessel are a good fit but there are others as well, not all Japanese. For quite a few years now, the JIS standard is the same as the ISO cross point standard.


JIS B 4633

98th Edition, October 20, 2023

Complete Document
Screwdrivers for cross recessed head screws
Includes all amendments and changes through Reaffirmation Notice , October 20, 2023

Active, Most Current
EN
Additional Comments:
ENGLISH * SAME AS ISO 8764-1, ISO 8764-2

Description / Abstract:
JIS B 4633, 98th Edition, October 20, 2023 - Screwdrivers for cross recessed head screws

From <https://global.ihs.com/doc_detail.cfm?document_name=JIS B 4633&item_s_key=00137253>

Jack

 

[Jack Ryan]

JIS heads are identifiable by the dot next to the cross shaped recess, PH don't have one.

The dot on the fastener head actually indicates that the thread pitch is ISO not JIS. The Japanese added the dot when they moved from JIS threads to ISO threads.

Jack

 

[Jack Ryan]

JIS is that particular standard - talking about JIS screws and drivers. The Japanese standards for industry (over 9000 of them) are like British Standards. BS is maintained by BSI, JIS is maintained by the Japanese Industrial Standards Committee.

Nope. JIS is the standards organisation. The standard is JIS B 4633.

The JIS crosspoint screws need a JIS compliant screwdriver. Neither Pozidriv or Phillips are the same shape.

The Japanese and international standards are the same - Japanese Phillips and ISO Phillips drivers are the same - it says so on the standards. Posidriv is different and is not part of the discussion.

Not everyone makes them the same though.

Yes, they can be used but cam out is a problem. Both Phillips and Pozidriv are designed to allow cam out at high torques to prevent "alleged" damage to the screw. We all know that is a fallacy though. JIS does not have this feature so it is entirely possible (easy) to break the screw long before the screwdriver loses its grip.

The original JIS cross point driver and Posidriv were designed to address the Phillips cam-out issue. That issue was a design limitation, it is not a feature that was claimed in the original Phillips patent.

Jack

 

[Tangledfeet]

Well that's an anti-climax. I went out to check my new found knowledge and all the adjustment screws on the bike I've got easy access to are hex (reasonably modern 1 x 11 Deore).
View attachment 483890

I feel so bad/incorrect now! Sorry...

 

[Climber]

I feel so bad/incorrect now! Sorry...

No, you are definitely right; I know exactly the screws you mean. I'm just deflated that the one bike I had to hand to check my new found knowledge is all hex / Allen key.

Someone is going to tell me now that standard metric Allen keys aren't the right tool for those aren't they.

 

[Tangledfeet]

No, you are definitely right; I know exactly the screws you mean. I'm just deflated that the one bike I had to hand to check my new found knowledge is all hex / Allen key.

Someone is going to tell me now that standard metric Allen keys aren't the right tool for those aren't they.

I've just had to mansplain my guffaw to the wife!

I've just bought a new mountain bike, an e-bike, and it has.... SRAM... brakes and gears...

(I might add I'm 54, once a proper (none of this trail centre malarkey) mountain biker but age takes its toll and I'd like to get out again with mates that are younger, fitter and faster than I am.)