Renting premises to trade from

[Sphinx]

Hi Guys and Girls, I've got some questions that I hope some of you might be able to answer.

I'll start off by saying I know nothing about these things so forgive my ignorance.

For various reasons I've come to the conclusion lately that I need to work for myself and start doing the thing I do as a hobby, for a living; car trading + anything extra that may involve. I'll say now that I'm fully aware that it's the worst time to be thinking of such things but frankly, my entire background is automotive based so that's life.
A good friend of mine who's an auto electrician would be in on this too so we'd be able to split the space. The plan would be for me to trade, him to do his thing and for us both to 'combine forces' on a couple of projects we've discussed.
To do all this we need premises; somewhere undercover big enough for say 5 cars at least with outside parking also. We would be working on cars but not all the time and not producing rivers of waste oils and fluids that people assume when you mention cars.

Where would be the best places to look for commercial property like this? I've searched sites like rightmove and gumtree etc but perhaps you lot may know of some others?
Also, any advice on how to get the best deal? I understand 'rates' have to be paid on commercial property but how are these calculated? and how/why can new businesses get a break on them?
I could read up on this until I'm blue in the face but all that will accomplish is a brain full of new terms and words with very little understanding of them. I need a simple 'what you need to know' approach.

Any help much appreciated

 

[tigler]

To start I will wish you the best of luck, but being in business is never easy !
First, renting premises. Unless you find a place that combines rent with rates work on rates costing around another 50% on top of the rent.
Second, you will need to register with the DVLA as a car trader. Third, you will need a trade insurance policy otherwise handling cars will be a nightmare.
Fifth, any premises used for the motor trade will need approval for such use from the local authority and it's not the most popular trade with landlords so you choice will be restricted.
Sixth, there will be something but it's late and I can't think of it !

 

[the snooper]

have a look here these have property all over and are usually easy in easy out terms a months notice i think

 

[Sphinx]

Thanks guys, just checked before heading to bed.
The car trading part I'm fine with (famous last words? lol) it's just the set-up in order to do it in numbers worth bothering with that I'm new too.
A little bit of background is that I've been self employed for a while now but that work dried up so I looked for 'normal' work. After several rejections along the lines of 'you would be someone we want but we're not hiring at present' the final kick in the teeth was having my time utterly wasted; after a 3 day unpaid job interview I was offered the job over the phone and upon asking for written conformation they never contacted me again. Anyway (aaaand breeaathe)...

I wasn't aware that premises would need to be approved though?! It wouldn't be a forecourt, just simply somewhere respectable looking to store cars and do the odd jobs on (I don't intend to be doing major work on them regularly)

 

[the snooper]

you mentioned trading cars i think in your first post and thats what it refered to i think being a trader

 

[rtbcomp]

Tigler's right - someone I know was looking for premises to repair cars from and he had great difficulty.

I just got a big rates rebate out of the blue as part of a Government initiative to help small businesses, but I think you may have missed the boat now,

 

[Paul.]

Tigler's right - someone I know was looking for premises to repair cars from and he had great difficulty.

I just got a big rates rebate out of the blue as part of a Government initiative to help small businesses, but I think you may have missed the boat now,

From September this year Small business rate maximum relief is increased up to 100% from 50%, IE no rates to pay for 12 months, you should be able to apply retrospectively, when I moved into my unit over 5 years ago none of the neighbours seemed aware of it, its not very well advertised, when I told them about it they all applied in the same week, the rates office must have wondered what was going on. they all got their money back, and I gained a few instant friends.
Have a look here.

 

[astro_al]

Ask around local farms. That's how I found mine.

Al.

 

[Sphinx]

Thanks again guys, it's really nice to know there are people out there soo willing to help with things like this.
Astro_al, I see you're in Hampshire, anywhere near Southampton? and is your unit big enough to share?

Night all, I'm sure I'll have more questions tomorrow.

 

[rtbcomp]

From September this year Small business rate maximum relief is increased up to 100% from 50%, IE no rates to pay for 12 months, ..........
Have a look here.

I thought it was something like that.

I just got a small refund and no more payments for the rest of the year, didn't even have to claim!

 

[Welderpaul]

From September this year Small business rate maximum relief is increased up to 100% from 50%

They brought out the 100% rate relief just as we moved into a larger unit. I think we get something like a 2% relief now on 2,500 ish sq ft.

I drove around the local industrial estates looking for a unit when i started up. There seems a mixture of stuff about, from the posh to the falling down.
Make a few calls to the commerical letting companies - quite often there is stuff up for rent, or about to come up that isnt advertised.
Theres 4 empty ones on our estate now, more gone bust. We've taken another one on now on the basis of an informal deal with the landlord.

 

[tigler]

I wasn't aware that premises would need to be approved though?! It wouldn't be a forecourt, just simply somewhere respectable looking to store cars and do the odd jobs on (I don't intend to be doing major work on them regularly)

Premises are classified and approved for certain use, so there is a classification for retail shops, restaurants, bars, warehousing etc, and of course motor trade use. Doesn't matter what type of motor trade. Can't recall the designations used but that should be easy to find on a gov website.

At one time I had a small business doing servicing, modifying and tuning Mitsubishi Evo's which I ran out of the unit which the family business rented, the business was something completely different so I was under the radar so to speak and never had to approach the local authority for change of use etc. That would be the only way to get away with it.

If you decided not to tell them it was motor trade it would be too easy for them to spot you trading cars and then you would be in a world of brown stuff !

Landlords don't like motor trade because in general it messes up their property and they see it as dodgy.

You might have some luck with a farmer, but then you have to put up with the dust and general mess which is worse than you think, been there, done that, got the T shirt !

 

[astro_al]

What he said. My van is constantly muddy & there's no way to keep it clean as my workshop is down the same track the tractors use...

Think I'd be a bit far north for you to be honest, but try the same method around your area.

Al.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Be sure you get a proper Partnership Agreement drawn up, working with friend(s) is fine as long as everything's fine, it's when problems start that the "business" can be pulled apart, and it can often be caused by the most insignificant or unlikely of causes.

What happens if one side of the combined business doesn't earn enough to be worthwhile for the individual's needs, do you want to be stuck with paying all the rent, utilities etc.?

Obviously, do a business plan with detailed projections/costings etc.


Good luck!!

 

[michael1703]

no business rates on premises up to £6k rateable value in my area, it may depend on what your local government sets as a guidline, look on the website of the council the unit falls under

the link below lists property sizes and what their rateable value is, its not exact as prices dropped a bit in the last two-three years

http://www.voa.gov.uk/

i'm a motor trader and didnt have to contact anyone, i dont get a lot of waste oil but i funnel it into barrels and then sell it for bio-diesel, scrap tyres are to taken to kwik fit where they dispose of them for £1.50 a tyre, so i charge the customer a disposal fee

all metal goes in a scrap metal bin, people buy scrap batteries from me for £2.50 each and they buy scrap cat converters from £5 upwards

get a trade account at a motor factors that delivers, you dont want to be running around wasting time/fuel

 

[Sphinx]

Thanks again everyone.
I'll look into all the links and information provided; Michael, the way you deal with waste is exactly what I was thinking as I don't plan on there being enough to bother anyone. In my head I can't see how people can get annoyed with a tidy display of tidy cars, but it does take all sorts I suppose lol

 

[rtbcomp]

.........waste oil but i funnel it into barrels and then sell it for bio-diesel, .......

....... people buy scrap batteries from me for £2.50 each and they buy scrap cat converters from £5 upwards

get a trade account at a motor factors that delivers, you dont want to be running around wasting time/fuel

How is waste engine oil used in bio diesel? just curious.

My scrap merchant won't take batteries! It's worth noting that it's an offence to give/sell scrap/waste to unlicensed carriers/dealers.

You don't want to use your own car for motor-trade purposes if you can help it because of the insurance premiums.

 

[michael1703]

dont know much about bio diesel, google it and some guys on a landy forum have a thread on it

or you could keep the waste oil to use in your own waste oil burner

my scrap merchant takes batteries

i use my own car for motor trade purposes because i have a traders policy, covers all my cars/customers cars/tools/public liability/recovery etc etc

 

[snowcat]

just to add DOC tickets are REQUIRED for all industrial waste, over-wise its you who's committing the offense, Waste engine oil can be collected for free, but its cleaned (normally) and reused as ermmm engine oil, around 1000lts at a time gets you a free collection and a DOC ticket, this is different to WVCO which is normally first separated (water and solids removed) then exported for bios or from this summer burnt in DRAX (the white elephant) for power...

Waste oil workshop heaters require a license about 1K per annum I believe

All waste needs a DOC ticket and cannot be stored for anymore than a rolling 12 months...

I let a couple of farm buildings, firstly trading from buildings or letting them requires a change of use planing a PITA (B9 if my memory's correct), Most farms therefore want something very low key to try and evade the planning, storage etc. Trading not a chance, council would be around within the first week,

On the radar of tenants anyone doing anything with cars is universally avoided, messy, noisy unreliable, is the perception I'm afraid..

 

[Sphinx]

From my limited searching so far I can full agree with the statement of 'anyone doing anything with cars is universally avoided, messy, noisy unreliable, is the perception I'm afraid..'
The dodgey dealers and Arthur Dailys of the world have made an impression that I'm constantly trying to prove otherwise.

What's a DOC ticket by the way?