GPSR Compliance

[hotponyshoes]

I see the other thread has been locked as it turned into a moaning ramble...

I can see why people would be upset about the situation.
I can see some sellers will think it's not worth the hassle, stop selling into the eu and want to vent about the lost income.

Not in this thread please.

I'm not sure how many members of this forum actually make and sell into the eu (and want to keep doing so) but this thread is for them only!

I make and sell products worldwide.
Low volume, relatively low cost, not much repeat business.

Currently about 20% of my sales are outside of the uk (about 1/3 of that is ex-pats)

I've been looking into gpsr compliance as an individual. It's not that bad.

Bear in mind, my products are specialised in a restrictive market. This is relevant as I believe I can just add any associated costs of compliance onto the sales price without it affecting sales volume.
If you already sell common items into a competitive marketplace adding 5% to the customers cost may well make you uncompetitive and you will need to assess for yourself if you think you can make compliance and still maintain sales.

I'm not covering every aspect in detail (as I don't know it all yet) but here is a starting point:

1, Not all sellers or items require compliance.
If you sell 'privately' this does not affect you.
There is a list of items available that do need to be compliant.
And a list of items that are specifically exempt. Most (all) of the exempt items are covered by existing specialised legislation and if you are dealing with these items you should already be aware of the requirements for those.
There is a large amount of products in the 'grey area' that are neither specifically included, or exempt.

Now, if you sell items on the 'included' list you have a load of new rules to adhere to.
However, you should already be able to satisfy most of these.
Example, if you manafacture high-chairs for babies they should be safe.
If they are not or are un-tested then I have no sympathy for you not being able to sell them.

The big problem for many (myself included) is you (and me) will need documentation to show that they are indeed safe. I'm currently working on producing this for my own products and it's not actually that difficult.
I 'know' the products I make are fine, it's just a case of putting this in writing.
Obviously I don't want to go posting examples of my stuff on the Internet as I don't make anything that special that a competitor couldn't just copy both the products and my documentation but I'm happy to help via pm on the finer details if required.

One thing I have noticed talking to others is that a lot of the stuff they make is just presumed to be safe (and I'm sure it is) because they have over-engineering working for them.
If you make the high-chair from 5mm wall box section, tig the roots, double pass with the mig, add 2 gussets on every corner.. it's going to hold the weight of a baby.

You'll also remove all the bits of stray mig wire and sharp edges before sending it to powder-coat.

So, you might have to do (and write down) some basic calculations. If you claim the chair is suitable for upto 3yrs old then you google the world record weight of a 3yr old and load up your chair with 50% more than that. You rock the chair around and declare it safe to use because its not fallen apart.
You spray one with salt water and leave it for 50hrs. If it's still in one piece it's fine.
You ask the powder coater for a copy of the data sheet and check there is no lead in the coating.
Obviously there is more to it than that but it's basically stuff you should be doing anyway like providing instructions for use, mantainance and safety warnings.
If you put in a bit more effort you'll probably find you can make the chair from 2mm steel, one pass, and make higher profit margins anyway.


You also need product identification. A brand or logo mark will satisfy this. Or you can simply provide this information on a tag or sticker attached to the product. Most of the time I'd expect you to want to put a logo on anyway but you'll all be familiar with items that are supplied with the product information supplied on a tag cable tied around a handle or just on the outside of the box.

The biggest hurdle I can see so far is the need to appoint a product representative somewhere within the eu.
This seems impossible for the small guy at first. However,
If you re-sell other items it can be relatively easy.
See if the manufacturer already has a product representative within the eu. Most do, or will be getting one shortly.
Name them as the representative.
That's it. You don't need any agreement with them or even inform them that you are using them as your representative.
You still need to provide your details as supplier with the product.

If you are (like me) a one-man based outside of the eu then you'll need one.
I'm still unclear as to what role this representative will be required to forfill and I'm still looking into that.
But, basically, if your uncle dave lives in France you can use his name. I'd be reluctant to name dave without checking that he won't be sued if the baby gets crushed.
In my situation, I have a distributor within the eu who is happy to act as my representative, initially, talks with them are suggesting they won't be subject to any liability, more that they will just be a documentation holder.

Or, several independent 'representative agents' are already available. Quick look at them seems to suggest some will just take a fee for you to use them as a name, upto ones charging you to independently test and assess products for compliance. Fees vary, payments are one-off to monthly subscription. If you sell multiple products prices seem to start from around £250 a year.
You can look them up yourself or let me know what you are selling and I can suggest one.

If you have existing orders for items you have not even got around to making and shipping yet (uh, like me) note that the regulations don't apply to used goods that need to be 'repaired' before using. So, if I decide to use the customers new toolbox myself and the castor happens to get damaged I can ship it with a new castor and bolt in the box..

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've got a meeting on monday with a company within the eu, not primarily about gpsr, but they are bringing in the legal guys that are advising on this and I've got free access to them so if anyone has any specific questions let me know over the weekend and (as long as I can make them look relevant to this meeting somehow!) I'll ask..

 

[gaz1]

theres a part that bugs me

the eu state safety and make sure its tested for the uk people

that comment is 2 faced

i got an electrical item from amazon recently and i run it the item did burn out in 15 mins

what i found out was the motor casing was so hot i burnt my fingers on it which i wasnt expecting

and theres many more cases of imported goods coming into the uk that shouldnt be coming in and should have the same requirements

so whilst its beat our system into being required its own system is a mess

 

[Misterg]

if anyone has any specific questions

I've been wondering if the purchaser can (somehow) also be the responsible person' ? (So you would have a different reponsible person for each sale.)

if your uncle dave lives in France you can use his name. I'd be reluctant to name dave without checking that he won't be sued if the baby gets crushed.

I thought that this was the whole point of the legislation - that there *is* somebody to sue / chase / threaten if it becomes apparent that there are issues with the product.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've been wondering if the purchaser can (somehow) also be the responsible person' ? (So you would have a different reponsible person for each sale.)

This may well be the case. Would depend on your customer though. I haven't trawled into all the details yet but I haven't seen anything that says it's not possible.
In my case, it would be easy as I'm in individual communications with each customer and they are normally some sort of 'custom' product so I think they would all be quite happy if I said I'm putting them on the paperwork.

However, if I'm 'only' looking at a fee of £250/yr to appoint an independent representative I'll probably go that way just to save typing a new name on the paperwork each time I sell something.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I thought that this was the whole point of the legislation - that there *is* somebody to sue / chase / threaten if it becomes apparent that there are issues with the product.

Again, I've not read all the way into it.
I was talking with a eu manufacturer long before this about them distributing my products. At a more recent meeting I mentioned a gpsr representative and they said 'that's easy as we'll just do that as well'

It was such an off-the-cuff remark that I thought there was very little to it., ie it was just a point-of-contact within the eu.
Also, the fees I have seen for independent representatives don't seem anything like high enough to suggest that they will be carrying any liability or even have to do anything other than providing you a name and address to use?

I'd presume liability will still work much as it does now. Ie, if I buy 10 toasters from Tefal and re-sell them and one burns someone's house down, ultimately Tefal are responsible. (Providing I've not modified them etc)
Under these new rules I will have to have paperwork in place to notify customers if tefal send me a product recall etc.

If I've made the product liability is on me.
Nothing I've seen suggests the representative forms any part of the sales chain, so I still sell/send the product directly to the end user.
So I don't see how the representative can (even inadvertently) take on any liability?

 

[hotponyshoes]

theres a part that bugs me

the eu state safety and make sure its tested for the uk people

that comment is 2 faced

i got an electrical item from amazon recently and i run it the item did burn out in 15 mins

what i found out was the motor casing was so hot i burnt my fingers on it which i wasnt expecting

and theres many more cases of imported goods coming into the uk that shouldnt be coming in and should have the same requirements

so whilst its beat our system into being required its own system is a mess

Not what this thread is about mate.
There are now new rules in place.

Whether these rules are right/wrong/helpful is not relevant to this thread.

If you want to sell into Europe now you have to follow the current rules.

Some people (like me) may already have orders that they have not forfilled yet and this thread is to help them get that done.

I don't like it either and if you start a different thread about it I'll happily join into that one and have a moan..

 

[bricol]

I don't know much, if any detail (I design the stuff, make sure it goes together, does what it is supposed to, and doesn't injure anyone when doing it - or indeed when being maintained or changed-over to another size etc) - but we have a name rep in Europe - I'm told we simply pay him a fee for each machine sold - a fee which, considering the selling price of our stuff, is ridiculously, stupidly, amazingly tiny, so I can only assume he simply acts as a contact to direct any problems in our direction.

I noticed on something I was requested to buy by my sister for my niece that it had a label on it designating both an EC representative and also a UK one.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Just spoken to someone from the company that may potentially receive my products.
The off-hand comment I mentioned earlier is because it does not apply.

In my case it would be a business-to-business transaction so they would simply become the eu importer and distributors

Still more to find out but I think the representative is simply required to hold copies of the product safety information and provide it on request if the safety of the products should come under investigation.

I do not know what the UK requirements are.
If they ate the same then I think (for me at least) it would be relatively easy and minimal cost to find someone who wants to sell into the UK and do a I'll do yours, you do mine arrangement

 

[Beanwood]

Very interested - thanks @hotponyshoes for exploring - we adapt/assemble/sell stuff to NI, and have had enquiries to supply a few customers in Holland.

My problem is the volume to NI is so low, and our product costs/profit relatively small due in part to the small target audience - it wouldn't be worth my while to spend £250 p.a. on an appointed representative. For some things where I only make say £2.50 profit - a cut to someone else would be prohibitive. Mine are online retail sales....

The only silver lining I can potentially see would be if anyone else selling from the UK doesn't work out how to do it cheaply enough, my share of the market could increase....

 

[Blobber]

The blurb I scanned said it was for only products made after this December 14th I think? Is that how you interpreted it? All my stock is "new old stock" so predates the December manufacturing date by miles

 

[Beanwood]

If they ate the same then I think (for me at least) it would be relatively easy and minimal cost to find someone who wants to sell into the UK and do a I'll do yours, you do mine arrangement

Hmm - so a kind of reciprocal trading agreement - I like it! Is it the case then that EU sellers need to have an appointed rep in the UK?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I've been wondering if the purchaser can (somehow) also be the responsible person' ? (So you would have a different reponsible person for each sale.)

If you sell the product "ex-works" through a UK entity, leaving the purchaser to handle the transport and importation, then that is exactly what happens.

But:
• that's only really workable for B2B sales, or really niche B2C sales to say hobbyists with very specific needs, no normal B2C business is going to survive that sort of policy.
• any business purchaser will still need all the documentation that you would have to produce if you were taking responsibility, and will presumably write that into the contract of sale.

So it doesn't really help much.

 

[hotponyshoes]

The blurb I scanned said it was for only products made after this December 14th I think? Is that how you interpreted it? All my stock is "new old stock" so predates the December manufacturing date by miles

The way I read it suggests that an existing product can continue to sell (providing it meets the previous regulations)
So I take that to mean I can continue making that product and selling it. Not just selling old stock.
It's only a new product brought into production after the 13th that would come under the new rules.
However (and I'm referring to my existing order backlog) I'm expecting enhanced scrutiny on everything at the moment.
Also, to be honest, I don't have the paperwork to comply with the previous rules anyway!
Hence the next few orders will ship out as 'used items for repair' until I've clarified this.

My thoughts are it's easier(futureproof) to comply with current regulations than comply with old ones and trad on an exemption basis.

Hmm - so a kind of reciprocal trading agreement - I like it! Is it the case then that EU sellers need to have an appointed rep in the UK?

I haven't seen anything to say that eu sellers need to have a UK rep to sell into the UK.
So I might not have anything much to offer in a reciprocal aggrement if they don't!

 

[hotponyshoes]

If you sell the product "ex-works" through a UK entity, leaving the purchaser to handle the transport and importation, then that is exactly what happens.

But:
• that's only really workable for B2B sales, or really niche B2C sales to say hobbyists with very specific needs, no normal B2C business is going to survive that sort of policy.
• any business purchaser will still need all the documentation that you would have to produce if you were taking responsibility, and will presumably write that into the contract of sale.

So it doesn't really help much.

That's exactly how I understand it.

I think it will be hard/extra work assigning every purchaser as a representative/importer/whatever.
It's also not going to look very professional.

I'm in the niche area you mention but I think I'd still rather just do less paperwork..

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

That's exactly how I understand it.

I think it will be hard/extra work assigning every purchaser as a representative/importer/whatever.
It's also not going to look very professional.

In principle it's no extra work for you as the as you're selling goods in the UK, and leaving the burden of fulfilling the role of both exporter and importer on the buyer (as well as them having to clawback VAT from HMRC).

We often buy UK equipment which is subject to Pressure Equipment Directive or Machinery Directive on this basis, which is then shipped via Holland and/or built into skids in Portugal, Finland or Estonia, before shipping out to final customers in the Middle East or Africa.

We have to use our UK entity to do the exporting and have our Dutch, Finnish, or Spanish entity manage the import side (including either compliance or demonstrating exemption as it's in transit and won't be "placed on the market").

But compared to the price premium of letting the UK seller handle it all via an agent, it's totally worth it for us.

I'm in the niche area you mention but I think I'd still rather just do less paperwork..

I think that's an individual judgement call every business will need to make.

Similarly it only makes sense to make an agency agreement with an EU entity if you think that there's enough of a market to justify it.

From my perspective we get a lot of added value in terms of sales support and marketing from our agent network around the world, but it's a long term investment where it takes time to find the agent, impart product knowledge, and support them building your brand in their country...

So both deal size and unit volume matter a lot in determining if it's worthwhile for both parties.

 

[Farside]

If you make the high-chair from 5mm wall box section, tig the roots, double pass with the mig, add 2 gussets on every corner.

That reminds me of a toboggan my uncle made out of conduit.
It was built like the Bismarck. No chance of it ever failing, but by crackey once it got going it would go through a wall.
The rider usually wasn't as tough, though.

Related to the OP - I've noticed smaller items from within the UK are now arriving with a Irish-related sticker on them with contact details of somebody in Ireland. EU-originated items are as they used to be, still with the seller's country point of contact.
The Irish contact (a bloke in Cork) is probably coining it in, at £150 a time per product line. All he has to do is make his service known to UK sellers.

 

[Misterg]

Nothing I've seen suggests the representative forms any part of the sales chain, so I still sell/send the product directly to the end user.
So I don't see how the representative can (even inadvertently) take on any liability?

Interesting summary here (different to what I've seen in 'news' articles:

GPSR: Responsible Person role

The GPSR states that all products sold in the EU must have a Responsible Person in the Union. This applies to all products, whether from the European Union or not, sold through traditional sales channels or online.

prodlaw.eu

"The Responsible Person is [...], the importer, the authorised representative (EAR), or the fulfilment service provider. Manufacturers can appoint an EAR to act as responsible person in the Union market. When a manufacturer does not have neither an importer nor an EAR, the fulfilment service provider acts as Responsible Person."

So a 3rd party e-commerce site (like ebay, etc.) could potentially fill this role? If you're selling irect to a customer, do they become the importer? (Rhetorical questions, sorry!)

"[...] the Responsible Person has the following duties:

Verifying that the manufacturer has a technical documentation, which is at disposal of market surveillance authorities.
Providing authority with all information and documentation necessary to demonstrate the conformity of the product.
When having reason to believe that a product in question presents a risk, informing the market surveillance authorities thereof.
Cooperating with the market surveillance authorities, by taking corrective actions or mitigating the risks in case of non-compliance.

In addition, the Responsible Person must check also that:

The product complies with the technical documentation requirements.
[...]Products bear a type, batch or serial number or other element enabling the product’s identification.
[...]The manufacturer’s name, their registered trade name or registered trademark, their postal and electronic address [...]
Product is accompanied by clear instructions and safety information in a language easily understood by consumers [...]

[...] Products offered on e-commerce platforms have to include the Responsible Person’s details as well.

So I guess that one would need to satisfy whoever the Responsible Person would be that, as the manufacturer, you have all that stuff in hand.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Interesting summary here (different to what I've seen in 'news' articles:

GPSR: Responsible Person role

The GPSR states that all products sold in the EU must have a Responsible Person in the Union. This applies to all products, whether from the European Union or not, sold through traditional sales channels or online.

prodlaw.eu

"The Responsible Person is [...], the importer, the authorised representative (EAR), or the fulfilment service provider. Manufacturers can appoint an EAR to act as responsible person in the Union market. When a manufacturer does not have neither an importer nor an EAR, the fulfilment service provider acts as Responsible Person."

So a 3rd party e-commerce site (like ebay, etc.) could potentially fill this role? If you're selling irect to a customer, do they become the importer? (Rhetorical questions, sorry!)

"[...] the Responsible Person has the following duties:

Verifying that the manufacturer has a technical documentation, which is at disposal of market surveillance authorities.
Providing authority with all information and documentation necessary to demonstrate the conformity of the product.
When having reason to believe that a product in question presents a risk, informing the market surveillance authorities thereof.
Cooperating with the market surveillance authorities, by taking corrective actions or mitigating the risks in case of non-compliance.

In addition, the Responsible Person must check also that:

The product complies with the technical documentation requirements.
[...]Products bear a type, batch or serial number or other element enabling the product’s identification.
[...]The manufacturer’s name, their registered trade name or registered trademark, their postal and electronic address [...]
Product is accompanied by clear instructions and safety information in a language easily understood by consumers [...]

[...] Products offered on e-commerce platforms have to include the Responsible Person’s details as well.

So I guess that one would need to satisfy whoever the Responsible Person would be that, as the manufacturer, you have all that stuff in hand.

Disclaimer: I may well be wrong!

I'm under the impression that I can still be the 'responsible person'
My 'representative' just needs to be a real person with a physical presence within the eu.

Certainly, the "representative agents" that I have looked into so far don't seem to ask for much (I've not gone as far as actually trying to register with one yet)
It just looks like a case of sending them all the documentation for them to hold on file and away you go. The prices they are quoting don't seem expensive enough for them to be doing much more than that.

I should point out that I haven't checked any of these out and there may well be hundreds of scammers preying on people like myself, or, at least, genuine agents offering a service that may prove to be useless or not fully comply with the requirements

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've only been considering direct sales so far.

Regarding ebay in particular, they already have facilities in place for you to upload the relevant information on items you are selling and do indeed act in this role.
Infact, if you do not comply with the ebay requirements they do not make your listings visible to the eu buyers.

This may actually be a cheap/easy workaround for small traders, just use ebay etc for sales providing you have the margins to cover the ebay fees (or can put prices up to cover them)