Curious device

[Dev]

Lads let’s keep this civil, we don’t want the thread getting locked.

I think what’s great about this endeavour is that:
1) its never been tried before. No one has ever thought to try this. Literally the first.
2) it’s in a grey area of science. There’s no rules regarding the conservation of energy so we just don’t know.
3) magnetic fields. Again, just a mystery. Entirely undocumented because no one has ever investigated them or used them.
4) he’s obviously trolling and it’s funny.

@Prajna do you have a plan to stop it when it starts? We don’t need another Hiroshima

That almost 50% true! Exciting times.

 

[Prajna]

Lads let’s keep this civil, we don’t want the thread getting locked.

I think what’s great about this endeavour is that:
1) its never been tried before. No one has ever thought to try this. Literally the first.
2) it’s in a grey area of science. There’s no rules regarding the conservation of energy so we just don’t know.
3) magnetic fields. Again, just a mystery. Entirely undocumented because no one has ever investigated them or used them.
4) he’s obviously trolling and it’s funny.

@Prajna do you have a plan to stop it when it starts? We don’t need another Hiroshima

I will get to thinking about how to stop it but just now I am concentrating on designing it.

I'm not sure @Screwdriver (and some others) will back you up on the conservation of energy thing, they're members of the science religion, i.e. they believe everything 'science' says, including all the science that arose from science proving science wrong. I don't think they consider magnetism at all mysterious either but they've probably never paid attention to Joe (of Joe Cell fame) or Fredrich Luling or Wesley Gary. Magnets are indeed mysterious.

I do my best to be civil here but it's not always easy when you're faced with insults.

Here's a vid of what I have so far:

 

[Maker]

I do my best to be civil here but it's not always easy when you're faced with insults.

Stick with it. I've got no faith in the device doing anything but some of the responses here are downright nasty and it's entirely uncalled for.

 

[DanZac]

Please keep sharing what your doing and please keep pushing forward with your project.

I've got nothing to add to the conversation, and a lot of what has been discussed is way above my head. But the thought process behind what your trying to achieve is interesting, as is seeing your design evolve.

And if nothing else I've learned a fair bit from following the various conversations that have sprung up from your efforts.

 

[Screwdriver]

Science is not a religion, nor is it a belief system.

Referring to anyone who obsesses about a perpetual motion machine as a crackpot is being polite.

The OP obviously does not understand the first thing about physics and he has made the mistake of insulting me several times with his ignorant nonsense. I have carefully and patiently explained where he is going wrong.

I am baffled as to why he is getting any support at all for this blatant quackery.

 

[MattF]

How about people let his thread run its course without all this negativity & put-downs. Plausible?

 

[Screwdriver]

How about people let his thread run its course without all this negativity & put-downs. Plausible?

I'll tell you why. Same reason crackpot nonsense like this is forbidden on physics forums.

Perpetual motion machines, flat earth theories, UFOs etc. first have to claim "the science is wrong". While of course science is never "right" because it is a process rather than a destination, it is currently able to perfectly explain or model our reality such that we can have satellites, internet, computers, - all the trappings of a technologically literate society.

Crackpot theories like this insult the intelligence of the scientifically literate and prey upon the ignorance of their audience. It relies on people not really knowing how the conservation of energy works, the deeper meaning behind the second law of thermodynamics and why entropy in a closed system must always increase. Yeah its complicated so it falls on those who can understand such theories and how/why they work to defend against nonsensical crackpots.

The earth is not flat but that sort of idiocy still persists which if nothing else, tells you there are enough people out there who can easily be fooled. UFO nonsense also ignores the simple fact that FTL travel is impossible for all sorts of demonstrably practical reasons but that is never discussed, UFOs just appear as if from nowhere. Somehow using "alien" technology they magically transport themselves all the way across the universe only to inexplicably crash because err, because of reasons.

The science is demonstrably not "wrong" and this particular poster conspicuously ignores all of the simple questions I put to them asking why they think they are right. However, even if we were to accept that we are in the presence of a self declared genius, they have yet to explain how their new theory actually works.

Instead the OP points to things they don't understand in the hope that no one else does. They go on to say people who "blindly" accept the "religion" of science are unthinking fools while 1. ignoring the fact that science does actually work to achieve the technological advances we have all around us and 2. completely fails to explain what their new brilliant theory is that disproves everything Maxwell, Bolzman, Einstein et. al. created.

I get a lot more angry at such arrogance than my patient replies to date might suggest. There is enough disinformation and propaganda going around currently it is.

 

[Prajna]

I'll tell you why. Same reason crackpot nonsense like this is forbidden on physics forums.

Perpetual motion machines, flat earth theories, UFOs etc. first have to claim "the science is wrong". While of course science is never "right" because it is a process rather than a destination, it is currently able to perfectly explain or model our reality such that we can have satellites, internet, computers, - all the trappings of a technologically literate society.

Crackpot theories like this insult the intelligence of the scientifically literate and prey upon the ignorance of their audience. It relies on people not really knowing how the conservation of energy works, the deeper meaning behind the second law of thermodynamics and why entropy in a closed system must always increase. Yeah its complicated so it falls on those who can understand such theories and how/why they work to defend against nonsensical crackpots.

The earth is not flat but that sort of idiocy still persists which if nothing else, tells you there are enough people out there who can easily be fooled. UFO nonsense also ignores the simple fact that FTL travel is impossible for all sorts of demonstrably practical reasons but that is never discussed, UFOs just appear as if from nowhere. Somehow using "alien" technology they magically transport themselves all the way across the universe only to inexplicably crash because err, because of reasons.

The science is demonstrably not "wrong" and this particular poster conspicuously ignores all of the simple questions I put to them asking why they think they are right. However, even if we were to accept that we are in the presence of a self declared genius, they have yet to explain how their new theory actually works.

Instead the OP points to things they don't understand in the hope that no one else does. They go on to say people who "blindly" accept the "religion" of science are unthinking fools while 1. ignoring the fact that science does actually work to achieve the technological advances we have all around us and 2. completely fails to explain what their new brilliant theory is that disproves everything Maxwell, Bolzman, Einstein et. al. created.

I get a lot more angry at such arrogance than my patient replies to date might suggest. There is enough disinformation and propaganda going around currently it is.

None of which addresses any analysis of what is happening in my proposed device in terms of fields or vector forces.

Instead you give us a sermon. Sounds a bit like a religion to me (and a number of scientists, btw.)

 

[Screwdriver]

None of which addresses any analysis of what is happening in my proposed device in terms of fields or vector forces.

Instead you give us a sermon. Sounds a bit like a religion to me (and a number of scientists, btw.)

Yes I did. A very comprehensive analysis which you ignored, saying the science is wrong.

a plot of a magnetic field must enter and return to it source, thus in any closed system the net sum of any vector plot must be zero.

What is your version of the "right" science then?? Present your world breaking theory. I'm all ears.

Would I be right in thinking you don't actually understand why my response tells you all you need to know about the impossibility of extracting energy from your whimsical device?

 

[voipio]

And yet the scientific community have theorised about dark matter, and dark energy, neither of which mankind has a complete understanding of. Far from it.

 

[Screwdriver]

And yet the scientific community have theorised about dark matter, and dark energy, neither of which mankind has a complete understanding of. Far from it.

...and what do you propose that means? That the whole body of science is incorrect because it currently does not describe the entire universe?

It is called "dark" because we don't know what it is. It is a space filler (excuse the pun) until such time as our understanding improves. Believe it or not, it is quite tricky to model the behaviour of gigantic structures like galaxies or plumb the depths of insanely complex phenomena like black holes.

These objects are thousands of light years away from us. Personally, I am surprised we are still able to predict their behaviours with the precision we are able.

Again, I remind everyone that if science is so "wrong" how come you're staring at a computer screen using a network connection supplied via satellite?

If the science was "wrong" your technology wouldn't work. It is not "wrong" our understanding is incomplete.

Does that leave room for perpetual motion machines? is that the thrust of your argument? OK then, show me the maths and describe this amazing new theory which still must allow for all of our toys to work while destroying the currently accepted models that allow us to build them.

 

[Bullet2012]

Quite looking forward to getting sucked into a black hole...

Easy, just put that terminology into a search engine of your choice and filter to your nearest location, is what I have been informed would work

 

[beeRS]

Above all, this thread is so entertaining

 

[Windy Miller]

Stick with it. I've got no faith in the device doing anything but some of the responses here are downright nasty and it's entirely uncalled for.

100% correct - you've just voiced exactly what I've been thinking.

I doubt very much that the thing will work, but it's a very interesting exercise nonetheless, and the OP does not deserve to get abused by a keyboard bully.

Just knock it off. Plesase!

 

[Munkul]

100% correct - you've just voiced exactly what I've been thinking.

I doubt very much that the thing will work, but it's a very interesting exercise nonetheless, and the OP does not deserve to get abused by a keyboard bully.

Just knock it off. Plesase!

Not being funny but the OP started the insults first. Read the thread properly.
I think its a great laugh, this thread, but the only one who did any name calling is the OP.

 

[Gareth J]

Is this prototype finished yet?

 

[reb78]

Not being funny but the OP started the insults first. Read the thread properly.
I think its a great laugh, this thread, but the only one who did any name calling is the OP.

Doesn't really matter though. They could both pack in the bickering.

 

[Guineafowl]

Is this prototype finished yet?

Indeed

It just needs to be a simple pivot, like a see-saw, magnets one end, small weight the other. He can measure the force on the ferrous gate with a spring balance. Then compare work done on the input vs output. F.d versus m.g.

This experimental setup could be built and tested in a couple of hours. If it doesn’t show over-unity power transfer, the switched flux hypothesis is wrong, and needs to be modified or discarded.

It ain’t gonna work. @Prajna prove me wrong.

 

[Prajna]

Is this prototype finished yet?

I'm still designing. Even once you have the geometry sorted you still have to think, "How am I going to print these parts? How will I assemble the device and what fixings do I need?" etc. Also I haven't got the cam tracks exactly right. Curves like that are easy enough to envision but difficult to realise in practice. I start with a sine wave curve wrapped around a radius and can then scale that on two axies and create a ruled surface between them but then if I just extrude that surface the width of the extrusion is correct on the vertical axis but varies depending on the angle of the curve if measured perpendicular to the curve. I can loft a rectangle around the curve path but the rectangle tends to twist around the curve. I'm still working on that.

 

[Prajna]

Indeed

It just needs to be a simple pivot, like a see-saw, magnets one end, small weight the other. He can measure the force on the ferrous gate with a spring balance. Then compare work done on the input vs output. F.d versus m.g.

This experimental setup could be built and tested in a couple of hours. If it doesn’t show over-unity power transfer, the switched flux hypothesis is wrong, and needs to be modified or discarded.

It ain’t gonna work. @Prajna prove me wrong.

I would like to very much, of course. As I said many posts ago, I have done various experiments early on to test such things but they were fairly rudimentary, not having a spring balance and limited on other engineering tools. But my experiments and observations have given me a level of optimism (not that I was particularly short on that )