MIF - Minimum Income Floor

[Onoff]

Without going into too much details a friend has received this letter from her local authority. Runs a small business, makes very little, isn't registered disabled but likely should be (too proud). Some months her kids have to bail her out.

Basically she's received this letter despite her accountant submitting her accounts showing she doesn't earn this much per week.

Not sure how she can conjure up money she doesn't have:

Anyone any experience of such and maybe how to fight it?

 

[DAPPH]

Minimum income floor | Low Incomes Tax Reform Group

The minimum income floor applies to some universal credit claims if you are self-employed. It does not apply in all cases. If the minimum income floor

www.litrg.org.uk

Also check the governments own site ..

I googled can self employed claim benefit if below MIF?

 

[sg66]

What was after if your income is below, the bit right at the end ?

Ignore me, it read like it was missing something,

 

[Onoff]

What was after if your income is below, the bit right at the end ?

"Yours sincerely"

 

[hotponyshoes]

The MIF is not based on what she earns so it's not relevant what the accountant has submitted for her tax return*

That figure is the minimum amount they would expect a self-employed person to earn so they base any benefits/discounts on that level of income.

If you are self-employed and earn more than £352/week you are assessed on the higher income.

*If money is tight why is she paying an accountant to do what is presumably a very simply return?

 

[sg66]

Minimum income floor | Low Incomes Tax Reform Group

The minimum income floor applies to some universal credit claims if you are self-employed. It does not apply in all cases. If the minimum income floor

www.litrg.org.uk

Also check the governments own site ..

I googled can self employed claim benefit if below MIF?

Not sure how or why that would be allowed or work, go self employed work 5hrs claim you can't make ends meet, get given money for being crap at what your doing, sit and watch TV at expense of tax payers.

 

[sg66]

The MIF is not based on what she earns so it's not relevant what the accountant has submitted for her tax return*

That figure is the minimum amount they would expect a self-employed person to earn so they base any benefits/discounts on that level of income.

If you are self-employed and earn more than £352/week you are assessed on the higher income.

*If money is tight why is she paying an accountant to do what is presumably a very simply return?

Yup there is even the option of doing a simple return.

 

[Onoff]

The MIF is not based on what she earns so it's not relevant what the accountant has submitted for her tax return*

That figure is the minimum amount they would expect a self-employed person to earn so they base any benefits/discounts on that level of income.

If you are self-employed and earn more than £352/week you are assessed on the higher income.

*If money is tight why is she paying an accountant to do what is presumably a very simply return?

Firstly the local authority asked for her accounts in support of her claim.

She takes strong prescription medication on a Monday, every Monday that makes her feel rough for a couple of days or more so starts working on a Thursday. Means her working days are in effect Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun.

Lastly she doesn't "do technology".

Just working 4 days a week surely it could be argued she's already 20% down compared to a 5 day week.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Not sure how or why that would be allowed or work, go self employed work 5hrs claim you can't make ends meet, get given money for being crap at what your doing, sit and watch TV at expense of tax payers.

This is exactly what it is preventing.

You get a grace period after first starting as self employed.
After that, they assess you (for benefits) as having a certain level of income - the MIF.

So, if you only work 5hrs a week and only make £20 a week they will say you should have been making at least £250 a week and caculate the benefits you get against £250 not £20.
Ie, you get less benefits.

The £250 weekly amount is based on your age etc so varies, ie in the op's case they think she should be earning the equivalent of at least £380 a week.
She might only be earning £20 a week but she "should" be earning £380.
If she was earning £380 she would not be eligible for the council tax discount so they are removing the discount.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Firstly the local authority asked for her accounts in support of her claim.

She takes strong prescription medication on a Monday, every Monday that makes her feel rough for a couple of days or more so starts working on a Thursday. Means her working days are in effect Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun.

Lastly she doesn't "do technology".

Just working 4 days a week surely it could be argued she's already 20% down compared to a 5 day week.

They will have asked for supporting documents but that won't actually be to support her! Just to get the facts and make sure the correct level of benefits are being applied.
Unfortunately, in this case, going from the information they have, she is self-employed and at an age where she is capable of earning £380/week.

Again, unfortunately, as self-employed they don't care if you work 3 days a week even if you do 18hrs on a Sunday

She could count herself lucky they ate not back-dating the council tax bill.

Realistically, she should be looking into disability allowance if she has a medical condition. It will be confidential and nobody needs to know she is claiming it. She won't have to give up the self-employed work to be eligible.

I appreciate pride might be an issue but just ask her why she is too proud to claim what she is entitled to yet she is (was) happy ro claim the council tax discount?

She doesn't need to 'do technology '
All council's are still (currently!) required to communicate in writing if required.

Plenty of other help available as well, best bet is to start with an organisation or charity dealing with whatever condition she has as they normally know the easiest way to proceed claiming relevant support

 

[DAPPH]

Defo get expert advice from citizens advice bureau ASAP . They helped me & my lass several times to negotiate the disability forms when meds made it impossible for me to fully function

 

[S-Rail]

Last year I had a heart attack with a stent fitted , and being self employed , I had a little savings .,, 3 months later I ran out of money , so had to apply for help , to be fair the people at the desk were great and could see I was taking the pee , got the maximum of 360 ish for 3 months , as I had been having a few issues / pains , .


each month had to login to declare the 0 earning , and they left me alone as they knew I wasn’t there for the ride … returned to work and obviously within the first week I breached the maximum of 380 ish earnt before loosing the “help” ….

I was advised not to close my claim just incase within the first year there was a problem and it would save me waiting for 5 weeks with a new application … so I left it , and just logged in to declare my earnings ….

Fast forward to 2 months ago I get a call and was told / informed that with immediate affect they were setting my monthly to 1400 pounds , I jsut agreed and nodded and the basic jist of it was that that is what they deemed I should earn , and couldn’t dispute it , to which I thought what was the point of you fix someone’s numbers , irrelevant of what they do actually earn , which I so far above the threshold of earnings before loosing any benefit ! I explained I may not receive money in a month , but have earnt it , just the invoice/s haven’t been settled …. She just couldn’t understand the idea …

So in short I closed it , I’m safe , touch wood , but they do seem to go out of the way to screw the honest , and the ones who paid into the pot ….

 

[premmington]

I have been following this post with interest...

I have been self employed for most of adult working life.

By the grace of god I have been well enough to work - and I am a car mechanic so I can earn well when working.

------

I was supprised anybody who was self employed could get any help with anything - learning you can from the posts above - really pleased me!

 

[ajlelectronics]

I was supprised anybody who was self employed could get any help with anything - learning you can from the posts above - really pleased me!

The only thing I ever got was £40 a week back in 1986 for business startups (Job Creation Scheme if I remember correctly). Other than that, I have been self reliant, even in the hard times. Oh, I'm reminded by Premmington that I also got the Covid handouts but that wasn't "benefits", it was a repayment of the robbery that had been visited on me by HMRC.

 

[premmington]

The only thing I ever got was £40 a week back in 1986 for business startups. Other than that, I have been self reliant, even in the hard times.

Only free money I have had self employed in nearly four decades - was the covid money - two rates grants (one large ish - one small) and several (five) SEISS grants. I have always paid a lot of tax and the SEISS grants were sizeable.

Without being too political - I did not think that sort of money should have been paid out - yes I took it with open arms (greedy little paws). But I did not need it - and the money would have been better poured at more needy people than me....

 

[hotponyshoes]

I have been following this post with interest...

I have been self employed for most of adult working life.

By the grace of god I have been well enough to work - and I am a car mechanic so I can earn well when working.

------

I was supprised anybody who was self employed could get any help with anything - learning you can from the posts above - really pleased me!

'Universal Credit' is gradually replacing all the other forms of support.
If you are currently receiving something else you will get transferred onto universal credit over the next few years.
If you make a new claim now you will go stright onto universal credit.

Universal Credit does also cover the self-employed.
But, there are a few conditions you have to meet to claim it. You can't just decide to only earn £20 a week and get the rest of your income from benefits if you are working age and healthy.

You are not eligible If you have more than £16k(?) in savings either.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Without being too political - I did not think that sort of money should have been paid out - yes I took it with open arms (greedy little paws). But I did not need it - and the money would have been better poured at more needy people than me....

I would say the same!
But apparently it was cheaper just to pay everyone than it was to pay the costs of working out who needed it and who didn't.
So apparently it saved the tax payers money.

It wasn't 'real money' - they just told the banks to print some more. Hence a load of people had extra cash they didn't earn or even need.
Hence why the prices of everything shot up..

 

[Smallfry]

I guess they take the view that if she is not claiming benefits, and accounts show earning LESS than MIL, what is she living on ?

Do they assume everyone self employed is "minimising" their accounts ? Which of course any sensible person would, within the rules.

Thankfully I have always been PAYE, which keeps the all seeing eye off your back !

 

[hotponyshoes]

I guess they take the view that if she is not claiming benefits, and accounts show earning LESS than MIL, what is she living on ?

Do they assume everyone self employed is "minimising" their accounts ? Which of course any sensible person would, within the rules.

Thankfully I have always been PAYE, which keeps the all seeing eye off your back !

I'm not too clued up on the rules for employment but basically, if you worked in employment and your employer goes bust or something you need to look for work (and accept what's offered) to claim Universal Credit.

You can't just sit around doing nothing and still get full benefits.

They basically do the same for self-employed. Depending on age etc they expect you to be able to work for minimum wage for 35hrs a week.
So they calculate the MIF based on that.

I guess the view is that if you are self employed but don't/can't get any work then you could go and do a minimum wage job instead.

If you are physically unable to work then, due to the way the system is currently set up, you need to provide proof of this. Universal Credit proof is provided via disability allowance etc so you need to claim that first then use that claim to support any Universal credit application. (I think!)

 

[Onoff]

Thanks all. I'll suggest she approaches the CAB and has a chat there.