Square Holes and Round stemmed Taps

[Dilkris]

What's the solution to this?
I have a stainless steel kitchen sink with square holes for the taps. All taps I have seen now have round mounting stems so even with the underside nut tightened the tap eventually flaps around like a pr*ck in a shirtsleeve as the nut becomes undone? Have tried to find some kind of adapter to no avail - what's the secret?

 

[Mark 5]

Will these help?

Pillar Tap Square Tap Hole Adapters - PAIR - 72000090

Pillar Tap Square Tap Hole Adapters - PAIR A pair of plastic square tap hole adapters that will take the thread of kitchen sink and basin taps to

www.plumbers-mate-sales.co.uk

 

[bricol]

If it's coming undone, then it would flap around in a round hole too? With all the right spacers, washers, o-rings etc in place, I can't think I've had one come undone - only done a handful over the last 30 yrs though, so I'm not exactly an authority on tap fitting.

I've bracketed the mounting stud of my mixer tap, and that of my next door neighbours, back to the cabinet to stop them flexing the sink and being annoying.

 

[Dilkris]

I hear you - but as you know, the tightening nut beneath the tap, only catches on a small part of the nut - if the nuts had a much wider collar, it would be fine - but they don't.

 

[Dilkris]

Will these help?

Pillar Tap Square Tap Hole Adapters - PAIR - 72000090

Pillar Tap Square Tap Hole Adapters - PAIR A pair of plastic square tap hole adapters that will take the thread of kitchen sink and basin taps to

www.plumbers-mate-sales.co.uk

Not sure about these - these are intended to be mounted on top of the sink and then the tap on top correct? Problem with this arrangement is as described to "bricol" above.

 

[Anguz]

Job for a 3d printer

 

[hunter27]

I also hate the sink top flexing with long spout taps and usually make a large backing pads out of 9mm ply or similar to act as a large washer, spread the load and give you something to clamp down on and stop the tap loosening.

 

[Dilkris]

I ended up making some enormous washers out of aluminum - solved the issue but an utter ball ache....

 

[bricol]

I ended up making some enormous washers out of aluminum - solved the issue but an utter ball ache....

Ooooh . . . you may have created another. Large area of stainless steel in contact with smaller area of aluminium, especially if it gets damp, will lead to pretty quick corrosion of the aluminium, enough to make it vanish! If you've got something between them, then it's less likely.

 

[Agroshield]

What diameter is the stem of the tap? If it is a standard 3/4" tap, it should be about 26.5mm.

A standard M24 stainless steel penny washer (25mm ID) would need a bit of ID filing to fit. A standard M27 stainless penny washer (28mm ID) would fit with no alteration (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313471784999).

If not, there are plenty of places that would plasma cut one for you from stainless plate. If it were a 1 1/2 or double sink, the exterior would not necessarily need to be round. Make a CAD (cornflakes box assisted design) template from above to determine the shape.

 

[DAPPH]

3D printing better nuts and collars might be a good option for bespoke fitting . Ask the guys in the 3d printer section for help?

 

[Dilkris]

Ooooh . . . you may have created another. Large area of stainless steel in contact with smaller area of aluminium, especially if it gets damp, will lead to pretty quick corrosion of the aluminium, enough to make it vanish! If you've got something between them, then it's less likely.

Fcuk...... well I'm not going back into it - the air was blue by the time I'd finished wrestling with it - I found joints I didn't realize I had.

 

[Nomad]

Search for "Top Hat Washers", Screwfix etc or ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/top-hat-washer-tap/s?k=top+hat+washer+for+tap

A plumber I worked with for a few years always fitted them, dual purpose as they spread the clamping force they also stop the thin sink top from flexing.

 

[Agroshield]

Search for "Top Hat Washers"

How would those help with his round tap in a square hole?

They are used on stainless sinks so the nut does not bottom out where the threads on the tap stop just under the flange that sits on top of the thin metal. All they do is move the nut down the thread a bit.

For example, on a thicker porcelain sink or on an undermount sink, where the tap is in the worktop, they are not needed because the backnut sits much lower on the threads.

I suppose you could fill the brim of the hat with silicone and once it sets, it will glue itself into the correct position.

 

[Dilkris]

How would those help with his round tap in a square hole?

They are used on stainless sinks so the nut does not bottom out where the threads on the tap stop just under the flange that sits on top of the thin metal. All they do is move the nut down the thread a bit.

For example, on a thicker porcelain sink or on an undermount sink, where the tap is in the worktop, they are not needed because the backnut sits much lower on the threads.

I suppose you could fill the brim of the hat with silicone and once it sets, it will glue itself into the correct position.

Thankyou - I was just about to say what you said - I have never understood what these actually do. They are described as "top hot washers" but in effect are little more than spacers and do not solve the problem of the tap, with a round stem, floating around in a square hole. I actually have some - why though I have no idea....
These were fitted to the tap I had the problem with - and in effect it had broken - which is hardly surprising as they clearly are not designed as a spacer.
I think "hunter 27" had the "go to solution" (I don't have a 3D printer etc) with the ply backing pads - I'll make some up ready for the next one..!!
Thanks everyone for chipping in.

 

[Mark 5]

Thankyou - I was just about to say what you said - I have never understood what these actually do. They are described as "top hot washers" but in effect are little more than spacers and do not solve the problem of the tap, with a round stem, floating around in a square hole. I actually have some - why though I have no idea....
These were fitted to the tap I had the problem with - and in effect it had broken - which is hardly surprising as they clearly are not designed as a spacer.
I think "hunter 27" had the "go to solution" (I don't have a 3D printer etc) with the ply backing pads - I'll make some up ready for the next one..!!
Thanks everyone for chipping in.

Top Hats basically allow back nuts to have a better hold over a slightly wider area then just fixing a back nut to the stem of a tap, thus helping taps and back nuts not loosen, this especially where basin or bath material can be thin, ( Acrylic ), They can help with resisting corrosion, not so much with brass or plastic/nylon nuts but the metal ones that use to be quite common especially where used on cast iron baths.

 

[Domdom]

All the adapters in the world won't stop the sink from flexing. I had this at the parents' house and all I found to cure the whole problem was rigid copper piping to them instead of the flexi things that kitchen places fit. All secured to the back wall in saddle clips. This stops the tap from moving and undoing the nut. It also stopped all the sink flexing. Only needs a couple of feet of pipe, then you can join into the plastic or whatever's already there.

 

[hunter27]

I have removed lots of top hats over the years and a lot of them were split, I assume they were to add a bit of cushioning when tightening taps into ceramic basins, most tap locking nuts used to be brass.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

GROHE Support Plate Chrome 05334000 https://amzn.eu/d/5Bp3gAZ

Usually come with tall heavy taps.

 

[gaz1]

we used to have a square base at the bottom of the taps and that locked the tap from spinning around on the sink

the top hat then fit over the locking part of the base under the sink and then your nut

sometimes lead was used as a spacer on the older sinks

the plastic top hat is useless unless it has a metal spacer inside of them to stop them crushing and splitting

there is a cheating way of doing it if you have a scrap piece of plastic window bottom you can make a square really quickly first drill the hole to the tap size then cut off around it untill you have the size you want

this better than a top hat as its much thicker