Ceramic cartridge valves

[Shawn Buckley]

My company Focused Sun is in Las Cruces, NM, USA. We make “solar thermal” power plants. A small one is shown here

Here’s the problem. We have 4 different modes of operation for a system Each mode requires valves be changed to get the correct operation. There are 10 valves used to get the four modes.
The fluid we are valving is hot synthetic oil good for 300°C (575°F). The oil is clean and filtered. It is also at only 6 psig. We have already made encoder-based motors that can open and close the valves under computer control.
I am intrigued with ceramic cartridge valves that have low maintenance. Yeah, I know that they are designed for water valving at 50 psi to 100 psi.
Has anyone tried to use the cartridge valves for anything but water?
Shawn

 

[Pete.]

Well, we have Blaenau Ffestiniog so come back when you start producing 'miserable grey skies' powerplants and we'll see what we can do.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

Cartridges (meaning faucets for hot and cold water?) use simple rubber o'ring seals and silicone seals. At +300 even Viton will not last long, IMHO.

Oil - are you using silicone oil?

 

[Brad93]

My company Focused Sun is in Las Cruces, NM, USA. We make “solar thermal” power plants. A small one is shown here

Here’s the problem. We have 4 different modes of operation for a system Each mode requires valves be changed to get the correct operation. There are 10 valves used to get the four modes.
The fluid we are valving is hot synthetic oil good for 300°C (575°F). The oil is clean and filtered. It is also at only 6 psig. We have already made encoder-based motors that can open and close the valves under computer control.
I am intrigued with ceramic cartridge valves that have low maintenance. Yeah, I know that they are designed for water valving at 50 psi to 100 psi.
Has anyone tried to use the cartridge valves for anything but water?
Shawn

you'd be best off speaking to a valve company like blackhall or one of the subsea companies (subsea 7 have a whole department related to high temperature valves)

Blackhall Engineering - UK Valve Design & Manufacturer

Incorporating the LARNER-JOHNSON valve, and our own TAYLOR and SHAW brands, Blackhall is a UK valve manufacturer of Water, Steam, Boiler, Cryogenic, Pump-Protection and Bellows Sealed Valves.

blackhall.co.uk

 

[Shawn Buckley]

I'll look into these. Thanks.

Well, we have Blaenau Ffestiniog so come back when you start producing 'miserable grey skies' powerplants and we'll see what we can do.

 

[Shawn Buckley]

you'd be best off speaking to a valve company like blackhall or one of the subsea companies (subsea 7 have a whole department related to high temperature valves)

Blackhall Engineering - UK Valve Design & Manufacturer

Incorporating the LARNER-JOHNSON valve, and our own TAYLOR and SHAW brands, Blackhall is a UK valve manufacturer of Water, Steam, Boiler, Cryogenic, Pump-Protection and Bellows Sealed Valves.

blackhall.co.uk

I'll look into them. Thanks.

Cartridges (meaning faucets for hot and cold water?) use simple rubber o'ring seals and silicone seals. At +300 even Viton will not last long, IMHO.

Oil - are you using silicone oil?

Yes, the medium is silicone oil, sort of like MobilOne. I saw your post above too about the seals. I agree, Viton won't cut it. We think we can use silicon or teflon for the seals, both are good for 300C.

 

[Shawn Buckley]

Well, we have Blaenau Ffestiniog so come back when you start producing 'miserable grey skies' powerplants and we'll see what we can do.

Pete, I missed the part on the "miserable grey skies". Here's one I took yesterday with my cell phone. Of course it's winter and in summer many days are 40C.

 

[addjunkie]

Cartridges (meaning faucets for hot and cold water?) use simple rubber o'ring seals and silicone seals. At +300 even Viton will not last long, IMHO.

Oil - are you using silicone oil?

I agree here. Thermal oils are strange beasts too, some can go solid if it gets too hot, but its many years since I was involved with such.
Id contact the different manufacturers and ask them….Parker Hanafin maybe

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

I'll look into them. Thanks.

Yes, the medium is silicone oil, sort of like MobilOne. I saw your post above too about the seals. I agree, Viton won't cut it. We think we can use silicon or teflon for the seals, both are good for 300C.

I use graphite seals with stainless steel bands on the flange seals of pipes for oil heaters. Steel rings prevent the expanded graphite from being crushed. for Teflon and silicone, +300, this is at the limit of what these materials can do.

 

[Shawn Buckley]

Pete, I missed the part on the "miserable grey skies". Here's one I took yesterday with my cell phone. Of course it's winter and in summer many days are 40C.

And don't forget this is a desert, along with its snakes, cactus (we have more pricks than any state but Texas), tarantulas and road runners.

 

[addjunkie]

As an observation, steam turbines, and the heating process from oil to water/steam are not the most efficient thermodynamic processes. How does the efficiency of this sun , oil steam, turbine Generator compare with a solar PV set up with batteries for a similar cost.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

looks great and has interesting sizes

Ceramic ball valve​

> DN10...!​

Pressure: to PN40
Temperature: -30°C to +950°C
Options: TA-Luft, heating/cooling jacket
Actuator: pneumatic, electric or manual
Ceramic materials: alumine, zirconia, silicon carbide, silicon nitride
°F

CERA SYSTEM - AFT Sp. z o.o. - dystrybutor i producent armatury przemysłowej, obróbka stali

CERA SYSTEM GmbH is a leading producer of technical ceramics. The scope of supply includes ceramic valves, ball valves, gate valves, ceramic lined pipes and fittings, ceramic nozzles, static mixers and other devices made of ceramics, which are used where the medium has abrasive and corrosive...

aft.pl

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

a good guide on the classification of temperatures and materials for valves and gate valves. It was interesting for me for self-education; in my work I come across such technical issues, expanding my horizons.

High Temperature Valves - What defines a High Temperature Valve? - Authorized Parts Inc.

Authorized Parts Inc. is your go-to source for a full range of high temperature valves. Get a quote or place your order now. Our experts are standing by.

www.authorizedparts.com

 

[Shawn Buckley]

As an observation, steam turbines, and the heating process from oil to water/steam are not the most efficient thermodynamic processes. How does the efficiency of this sun , oil steam, turbine Generator compare with a solar PV set up with batteries for a similar cost.

They are about the same. Two sets of Elon’s batteries (one set for the first 10 years, another set for the next) cost about $2/W a set. Add that to the $1/W for the PV itself and it’s realistically $5/W. Our Microgrid is $3/W and our Hectare is $1/W in production.
And you are right, it is inefficient but there’s more of it. PV gets 20% efficiency (amount captured divided by solar flux) while ours gets 60%. We use lots of heat to make electricity inefficiently. PV makes electricity all on its own.

 

[Shawn Buckley]

I had not heard of “expanded graphite” so I looked it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expandable_graphite.
Looks like a good high temperature seal.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

I had not heard of “expanded graphite” so I looked it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expandable_graphite.
Looks like a good high temperature seal.

Then the expanded graphite is pressed into products, cords are made for seals, and so on. It looks quite hard, not soft.

I removed the gaskets several times, they continue to work, but the oil pressure does not exceed 4 bar on my equipment.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

They are about the same. Two sets of Elon’s batteries (one set for the first 10 years, another set for the next) cost about $2/W a set. Add that to the $1/W for the PV itself and it’s realistically $5/W. Our Microgrid is $3/W and our Hectare is $1/W in production.
And you are right, it is inefficient but there’s more of it. PV gets 20% efficiency (amount captured divided by solar flux) while ours gets 60%. We use lots of heat to make electricity inefficiently. PV makes electricity all on its own.

Interesting generator. How much does it cost for approximately 20 kW of generation? We have a lot of sun.

 

[Shawn Buckley]

Then the expanded graphite is pressed into products, cords are made for seals, and so on. It looks quite hard, not soft.

I removed the gaskets several times, they continue to work, but the oil pressure does not exceed 4 bar on my equipment.View attachment 434167

Thanks for the pic, Sergie

 

[northwest]

cords are made for seals

Used similar as gland packing on the steam plant in the dairy.

 

[Sergei Slovenija]

Used similar as gland packing on the steam plant in the dairy.

used in many places