Kayos
Gone......
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Have to think beyond payback
- Thread starter DickyDoDah
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Have to think beyond payback
MetalMonkey
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I second keep the old one running. Condensing is more efficient but another thing that goes wrong.
It might just be a personal thing, but I just can't stand combi boilers - constant cycling every time you use a tap and a choice of blazing hot or stone cold water depending on how much you turn it on.
If the old unit is still giving good service, keep it running and worry about changing it at a later date. Who knows what is around the corner.
It might just be a personal thing, but I just can't stand combi boilers - constant cycling every time you use a tap and a choice of blazing hot or stone cold water depending on how much you turn it on.
If the old unit is still giving good service, keep it running and worry about changing it at a later date. Who knows what is around the corner.
DickyDoDah
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The main saving will be on the hot water as the tank is very wasteful if you don't use/need a lot of hot water. I think I've convinced him that the temperatures should be set and left alone. He mostly wants to have more on/off times and the ability to advance it remotely. After a good look round the Drayton Wiser system seems a reasonable bet.
DickyDoDah
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The payback isn't all of it as @Kayos says. If they ever want to move house, an old boiler will be used to ask for a disproportionate reduction in price. Also their lifestyle doesn't lend itself to a traditional boiler and tank setup. A combi is the best fit but I do agree with the comments of more to go wrong. Hopefully something like the Baxi 800 series with a stainless heat exchanger will be reasonably long lived.
@Kayos In your experience do the Baxi boilers have any weak spots that may end up in big bills? Assuming regular servicing and system cleaning/protection will it last? Or if you want an easier question, how long is a piece of string
I personally have a Grant external oil boiler and the way that is built it will outlast me but gas boilers aren't made that way
@Kayos In your experience do the Baxi boilers have any weak spots that may end up in big bills? Assuming regular servicing and system cleaning/protection will it last? Or if you want an easier question, how long is a piece of string
I personally have a Grant external oil boiler and the way that is built it will outlast me but gas boilers aren't made that way
I've done some research on this. It appears the 600 and 800 range are the same boiler. It's just the warranty that differs. Provided it is correctly fitted by a qualified engineer and serviced annually, then it's 10 years parts and labour on the 800 and I think 7 on the 600. The warranty is with Baxi not the installer. So it will be a Baxi engineer that turns up to fix it. So Baxi must have confidence in their product to offer 10 years.The payback isn't all of it as @Kayos says. If they ever want to move house, an old boiler will be used to ask for a disproportionate reduction in price. Also their lifestyle doesn't lend itself to a traditional boiler and tank setup. A combi is the best fit but I do agree with the comments of more to go wrong. Hopefully something like the Baxi 800 series with a stainless heat exchanger will be reasonably long lived.
@Kayos In your experience do the Baxi boilers have any weak spots that may end up in big bills? Assuming regular servicing and system cleaning/protection will it last? Or if you want an easier question, how long is a piece of string
I personally have a Grant external oil boiler and the way that is built it will outlast me but gas boilers aren't made that way
DickyDoDah
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A 10 year warranty does make quite a statement and one you can't really argue with. Quite reasonable for them to insist on a proper qualified install and a full service history. Assuming they do honour the warranty it makes the decision for you. Wouldn't it be nice if the car manufactures stood by their products in the same way instead of kicking you in the **** on your way out and telling you they never want to see you again
DickyDoDah
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More seriously though guys, thanks for all the advice and opinions, they were all helpful. Nothing will be decided on or done until summer time (if we get one) but I will be talking to the plumber soon just to see what he thinks of the plan.
JOEPRO
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My setup is admittedly different in that I had a 20 year old Oil Boiler going fine until it wasn't. Water jacket leaked.
This is a standard heat only boiler serving radiators. (No hot water or combi function)
I fitted a replacement condensing oil boiler. That was a couple of years ago and I have noted significant savings in oil consumption. Like 50% less!! And this was going from a high quality Worchester bosch boiler 20 years old to the replacement. Aka my old standard boiler wasn't that old.
Don't underestimate the fuel savings either! In my case my payback was in the first winter due to fuel savings. (I fitted the boiler myself which kept costs very cheap)
This is a standard heat only boiler serving radiators. (No hot water or combi function)
I fitted a replacement condensing oil boiler. That was a couple of years ago and I have noted significant savings in oil consumption. Like 50% less!! And this was going from a high quality Worchester bosch boiler 20 years old to the replacement. Aka my old standard boiler wasn't that old.
Don't underestimate the fuel savings either! In my case my payback was in the first winter due to fuel savings. (I fitted the boiler myself which kept costs very cheap)
dyno-tron
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We have a Baxi platinum, about 15 years old now, it’s fan was replaced (went noisy) and I’ve done the heat exchanger a couple of times, stainless but it still gets blocked eventually - an easy diy fix and only £40 (now got a magnetic filter so maybe that will help), otherwise it just works 
I had a valiant ecotec pro in my last place about 18 years old until I rented the house out 3 years ago I had it serviced twice 
. Never had any problems with it .
Obviously once it was rented out I had a major service ( some graphite seal changed ???? Etc ) then two more gas safety checks anually .
The gas engineer did say it was kettleing , which I assume but not sure means the heat exchanger was scaled up ....???? ( it was fairly noisy when running )
Yea but can't fault a valiant , even when neglected
Ps there was no filter eg magnaclean fitted either .
Cheers Mike
. Never had any problems with it .Obviously once it was rented out I had a major service ( some graphite seal changed ???? Etc ) then two more gas safety checks anually .
The gas engineer did say it was kettleing , which I assume but not sure means the heat exchanger was scaled up ....???? ( it was fairly noisy when running )
Yea but can't fault a valiant , even when neglected
Ps there was no filter eg magnaclean fitted either .
Cheers Mike
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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I must admit that I looked at my circa 1998 Warmflow Bluebird and it's 89% efficiency rating and thought what's the point in changing. Maybe I'm missing the point in that with your new one it heats on demand so you don't have a big, heated water jacket radiating heat?
My issue here is that the boiler is in an uninsulated "lean to". Single skin block with a bare minimum of insulation in the tiled roof. A big run of single glazed wooden windows too.
I have made a start at boxing it in within a tall, easily removeable (hinged), insulated cupboard.
JOEPRO
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My boiler is space heat only. There is no water cylinder being heated by it nor does it provide instant domestic hot water.
I did alot of research on the setting up of a condensing appliance. Including slightly undersizing it compared to the original boiler to get most efficiency out of the condensing heat exchanger.
It's easy to see why when you consider that the old appliance had 250c+ gas flue temperature. Whereas my condensing boiler's flue sits at about 70c max. That's essentially where the wasted oil was going!
I think when a condensing appliance is correctly specified and set up it should provide significant fuel savings. For many years I ordered 900L then another 2x 500L oil deliveries. Now the 900L will do a full winter!
Also - don't go by a stated efficiency. They can be net or gross figures and boiler manufacturers tell you what it can do in perfect lab conditions. In reality % needs to be measured in situ. Which is a combination of several factors including actual flue gas temperature.
I tested downsizing the oil nozzle in my boiler too and I think that was the last update which yielded a tiny marked uplift in efficiency!
Oil boilers still have very poor controls. I found someone on ebay selling a brand new vector group oil boiler controller which is a smart system and saves fuel. I paid £30 and they are normally supply & fit only and about a grand. It works by monitoring the boiler getting up to temp then holding it back longer than the bi metallic sensor is calling for firing again to save fuel.
Basically I did it all myself and I am confident I have the best solution I could have and highly fuel efficient.
mtt.tr
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This is interesting, as mine when the house is down to one rad it can short cycle. I'm not sure why they don't measure the return temp and decide on that wether or not to fire.
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
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They might have moved on, but when I bought this place it had a Baxi combi in it that would break down without fail on the first cold day every autumn - and at irregular intervals the rest of the year.@Kayos In your experience do the Baxi boilers have any weak spots
Most of the innnards (on the water flow side) were made of plastic. The mains pressure here was so high that it would spring leaks; the diverter valve spool got stuck and the stepper motor wound itself off the end of the shaft and broke the housing... it just went on and on. I ended up fitting a pressure reducer in the incoming mains.
In 2005 I had a bit of a lotto win so I scrapped the Baxi and fitted a Halstead; it's still up there and although it hasn't been flawless it's never brought the bathroom ceiling down and I've always been able to fix it. I literally kicked the Baxi up and down the drive, I was that glad to see the back of it - a Genesis 80 or 90 I think it was.
Halstead are out of business now but whenever I see spares for this one at sensible prices on Ebay I snap them up... just in case
Dave-sparks
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That's not a fault with the boiler though, that is the fault of the installer who didn't check the mains pressure and install a PRV at the time of installation.
Morrisman
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My boiler is in the very back end of the attached garage, kitchen sink is on the very front wall of the house.... a good 30'++ feet of pipe away, so half a minute of running the hot tap just to feel the first warm water appear..... whoever thought it was a good idea needs a slap.yea mine takes ages from the hot tank to the downstairs sink before its red hot its a long run and a waste realybrintg back the old ascot over sink gas water heater
I hope to move the boiler to the kitchen some day.
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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You could put a brass return pump on the hot. Triggered by a pir etc when you're near the sink. Thinking to do it as my cloakroom, ensuite and main bathroom basins are at the opposite end of the house to the hot water cylinder.
