Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[Farside]

 

[GRW]

Interesting!

 

[daleyd]

Maybe so.... but the bottom line is the govt lied to you & everyone else.
This whole thing is just one of many that prove pretty comprehensively that there is and always has been an agenda, and that our "public servants" might be supposed to be serving us - but all the evidence proves they are serving other masters (the ones with all the money & power).

I said a long time ago this was coming, and also said (as soon as I heard it - which @Pigeon_Droppings2 also mentioned a few posts above) about the seperate metering for EV's.... you don't need to be a genius to see that this can only be to facilitate addition taxation & higher tariffs on the way for the energy used to fuel transport).

So, you're going to get shafted for extra Duty & vat on your EV charging just as soon as they feel they can get away with it.

And no-one should be fooled into thinking these are "new" initiatives. The govt will have planned all these extra ways to turn you over - way back when they first got behind the EV - these nasty surprises (which they will be for many fool enough to trust our politicians) we're all tee'd up and waiting to be fired off from day 0.... I guarantee it.

It's disgusting & despicable yes..... but I afraid those of you who were either ignorant or oblivious, or indeed aware but did it anyway to "save a few quid" - were the vanguard who have facilitated the latest, biggest rape & pillage job to hit the motorist.

I can see the direction. Tax the EV. Then under the excuse that the EV is greener.... hit the ICE even harder than now - drive as many off the road & scrapped ASAP... then they can throttle every last penny out of anyone with personal transport.

As @premmington says "Transport Poverty" (in fact just plain Poverty) is a-coming. It'll hit the lowest paid first as always... but once they can no longer afford any car (as all the good older cheap ones have been eradicated) - then the next victims will be the middle-income (yup, all those who could afford to adopt the EV in the first place - subsidised by those who couldn't afford one, natch).... will be next to feel the burn.

It's coming. It's just a question of when.

Tell me, do you think driving an ice car will somehow make you immune to price hikes? The fact they don’t want them makes it certain that they are going to be taxed, probably until the pips squeak - to borrow an old chancellors phrase.

So, yes - ev taxes will certainly go up. If you think petrol duty won’t go up at least as much, and in all likelihood massively more so - then you probably need to reset your cynicism chip.

 

[rhubarb7]

Tell me, do you think driving an ice car will somehow make you immune to price hikes? The fact they don’t want them makes it certain that they are going to be taxed, probably until the pips squeak - to borrow an old chancellors phrase.

So, yes - ev taxes will certainly go up. If you think petrol duty won’t go up at least as much, and in all likelihood massively more so - then you probably need to reset your cynicism chip.

If you read his post again, he said ICE owners will get hit even harder.

 

[daleyd]

If you read his post again, he said ICE owners will get hit even harder.

Your right. I missed that, and I agree that’s what will happen. That would happen if Ev’s were a thing, or something else. Ice cars and burning oil has become so unpalatable that this is inevitable.

 

[GRW]

Your right. I missed that, and I agree that’s what will happen. That would happen if Ev’s were a thing, or something else. Ice cars and burning oil has become so unpalatable that this is inevitable.

The trouble is..... what's happening will impact the low-paid worker far, far harder & sooner, than any positive impact upon the environment.... because the EV itself relies heavily upon energy largely powered by fossil fuels, & upon the fossil-fuel powered heavy equipment needed to mine, extract & transport the raw materials for the production OF the EV's.
What IMO the EV does best - is move its pollution where its not easily visible, & reduce pollution in urban conurbations.

 

[daleyd]

The trouble is..... what's happening will impact the low-paid worker far, far harder & sooner, than any positive impact upon the environment.... because the EV itself relies heavily upon energy largely powered by fossil fuels, & upon the fossil-fuel powered heavy equipment needed to mine, extract & transport the raw materials for the production OF the EV's.
What IMO the EV does best - is move its pollution where its not easily visible, & reduce pollution in urban conurbations.

Given the current feeling against “carrying on as we are” then any alternative just needs to be better than what we currently have - by most measures, if you discount Facebook memes and “Dave down the pub” as serious sources, seem to suggest that over the lifetime of the vehicle an ev is “better” in terms of carbon emissions than an ice vehicle. Seeing as over 40% of our grid last year came from renewables, and pretty much 0% of an ice fuel could be classed as renewable, then I guess that stands to reason. I don’t think anyone says it’s going to be perfect, just an improvement.

So, given that “carry on as we are” is not an option that our leaders want us to have, other than an ev there is no viable alternative currently. Hydrogen doesn’t seem to be very practical, and there no infrastructure in place. What else? Green fuels? Maybe. But even that’s only just getting off the ground, and may be better suited to things that we just can’t use electric for, or that it’s not ideally suited for eg aviation and road haulage?

Personally I’m not convinced by the environment argument, I don’t have much of an opinion either way, though even if you discount the climate change part at some point we would have to look at moving away from digging up a finite resource and burning it in vehicles. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened for decades, but it wasn’t going to last forever.

 

[My Old Landy]

The long term solution really is mass transport with little or no personal transport. I don't like it or condone it, but I am a realist. It will come in future generations

 

[roofman]

The long term solution really is mass transport with little or no personal transport. I don't like it or condone it, but I am a realist. It will come in future generations

 

[Ubique]

The labour party, when they were last in control - that chancellor with the white bushy eybrows - Darling, tried retrospective charges (based on emissions) last time they were in power. I remember it well, VED for my ZS V6 was going to go up from £240 to £400 plus overnight. I also remember being outraged at the illegallity of it, and considering parking said V6 in his drive and setting light to it. Anyway, someone eventually saw the light and dropped the charge, quietly and with no public explanation. Same thing applies to the proposed EV taxation - I believe it to be unlawful unless you introduce it on new cars, and again it will be ammended before the proposed changes.

You could park a BEV on the politician (actually, more likely an adviser or CS) responsible's driveway and torch it - any comeback from plod, you could say it was just parked there as a protest and it just happened to 'spontaneously combust', you'd get away with it....

 

[500e]

Looking at a Tesla yesterday quality of finish leaves a lot to be desired, paint finish body gaps not good, was not a friends just a parked one, so did not get a look inside.
Perhaps it was a Friday car

 

[m_c]

Build quality on Teslas is pretty poor.

 

[Ubique]

Build quality on Teslas is pretty poor.

Build quality on all cars built in the US is pretty poor - and has been for some time.

 

[GRW]

Given the current feeling against “carrying on as we are” then any alternative just needs to be better than what we currently have - by most measures, if you discount Facebook memes and “Dave down the pub” as serious sources, seem to suggest that over the lifetime of the vehicle an ev is “better” in terms of carbon emissions than an ice vehicle. Seeing as over 40% of our grid last year came from renewables, and pretty much 0% of an ice fuel could be classed as renewable, then I guess that stands to reason. I don’t think anyone says it’s going to be perfect, just an improvement.

So, given that “carry on as we are” is not an option that our leaders want us to have, other than an ev there is no viable alternative currently. Hydrogen doesn’t seem to be very practical, and there no infrastructure in place. What else? Green fuels? Maybe. But even that’s only just getting off the ground, and may be better suited to things that we just can’t use electric for, or that it’s not ideally suited for eg aviation and road haulage?

Personally I’m not convinced by the environment argument, I don’t have much of an opinion either way, though even if you discount the climate change part at some point we would have to look at moving away from digging up a finite resource and burning it in vehicles. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened for decades, but it wasn’t going to last forever.

Here's the thing though. Really @My Old Landy has the answer.

But.... are you @daleyd prepared to give up your car? Happy to forgo personal (motorised) transport altogether to "save the planet"?
No.
Buying an EV might make you feel better about running a car.... but the reality is its making a difference so infinitesimal that its pretty irrelevant.
But making you feel good about Consuming & having personal transport - is IMO part of the great Con.
Capitalism & our entire economy is based upon & depends upon Consumerism. Enough start to "make do & mend" or do without - & Consumer spending falls, tax revenue falls & the economy struggles - do enough & the economy crashes.
Consumerism & Conservation are wholly incompatible philosophies.

But.... its a neat trick if you can salve the willing conscience of the consumer by saying "here, you can have what you want, have the shiny new car, AND you'll be saving the planet so it's all good" (& ahem the govt will have the sales tax and a big slice of every pound you spend owning & using it).

The middle-upper income earners, along with the "Silver Pound" - well you're the group with the disposable income that everyone wants a big slice of. Now I've of course not got the demographics to prove it.... but just which groups have the money and are demonstrably the ones buying EV's huh

 

[daleyd]

Here's the thing though. Really @My Old Landy has the answer.

But.... are you @daleyd prepared to give up your car? Happy to forgo personal (motorised) transport altogether to "save the planet"?
No.
Buying an EV might make you feel better about running a car.... but the reality is its making a difference so infinitesimal that its pretty irrelevant.
But making you feel good about Consuming & having personal transport - is IMO part of the great Con.
Capitalism & our entire economy is based upon & depends upon Consumerism. Enough start to "make do & mend" or do without - & Consumer spending falls, tax revenue falls & the economy struggles - do enough & the economy crashes.
Consumerism & Conservation are wholly incompatible philosophies.

But.... its a neat trick if you can salve the willing conscience of the consumer by saying "here, you can have what you want, have the shiny new car, AND you'll be saving the planet so it's all good" (& ahem the govt will have the sales tax and a big slice of every pound you spend owning & using it).

The middle-upper income earners, along with the "Silver Pound" - well you're the group with the disposable income that everyone wants a big slice of. Now I've of course not got the demographics to prove it.... but just which groups have the money and are demonstrably the ones buying EV's huh

I’m not trying to convince anyone of an environmental argument - it’s not one that I agree with but it’s one that people use. The people that make decisions.

The choice seems to be something other than an ice car, or nothing. You may not like that choice, but that’s the one that’s offered.

Are you ok with nothing? Asking me rhetorical questions doesn’t change a thing.

Edit to add - people splurging on a tesla aren't making a decision to carry on running around in a 10 year old mondeo OR buy a tesla! If they didn't buy a tesla they would be buying a new bmw/merc/range rover.

 

[roofman]

I have my views and they lean to keeping fossils for now till we are up to speed with EV infrastructure...Why the hell do some members keep pecking at heads trying to get there views and points across, if baffles me. By all means say your bit but please don't keep on trying to convince others who have their own views, it's just childish

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Perhaps it was a Friday car

From what I've heard they're all like that...even the ones I've seen on the road from a distance haven't been great.

Mg4 was pretty good on the build front.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

The long term solution really is mass transport with little or no personal transport

Or, fewer people on the planet.

 

[ukracer]

Given the current feeling against “carrying on as we are” then any alternative just needs to be better than what we currently have - by most measures, if you discount Facebook memes and “Dave down the pub” as serious sources, seem to suggest that over the lifetime of the vehicle an ev is “better” in terms of carbon emissions than an ice vehicle. Seeing as over 40% of our grid last year came from renewables, and pretty much 0% of an ice fuel could be classed as renewable, then I guess that stands to reason. I don’t think anyone says it’s going to be perfect, just an improvement.

So, given that “carry on as we are” is not an option that our leaders want us to have, other than an ev there is no viable alternative currently. Hydrogen doesn’t seem to be very practical, and there no infrastructure in place. What else? Green fuels? Maybe. But even that’s only just getting off the ground, and may be better suited to things that we just can’t use electric for, or that it’s not ideally suited for eg aviation and road haulage?

Personally I’m not convinced by the environment argument, I don’t have much of an opinion either way, though even if you discount the climate change part at some point we would have to look at moving away from digging up a finite resource and burning it in vehicles. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened for decades, but it wasn’t going to last forever.

Hydrogen might not be practical but the image I posted is the tip of an iceberg. Plus plugging in all those EV's in overnight will not be possible with our current infastructure.

 

[ukracer]

Build quality on Teslas is pretty poor.

They catch fire well though...