Gassed out

[caprinut]

There are often comments on this site that the small bottles supplied by Machine Mart for their Clarke MIG welders are crap nobody has said why, if I went for say a half standard bottle I would have to make some time to make a welding trolley to haul that round the workshop.

Bert

 

[Seadog]

The volume of gas, is why.

 

[arther dailey]

its the cost your paying, yes they work, but the amount of gas you get/welding time is tiny compared to other options.

 

[Easywelder]

The time spent making a trolley would be well worth it unless you are doing tiny amounts of welding

 

[JOEPRO]

Here is an example of gas price variations between larger bottles. I imagine inputting the correct volume, price and pressure of the micro canisters will show a large uplift in cost.

Hobbyweld 9L @ 137 bar = 1.28m3 volume. £78.99 refill cost = £61.71 per m3 Argon.

Autoparts store 10L @ 200 bar = 2.07m3 volume. £35.75 refill cost = £17.18 per m3 Argon.

 

[Stupoty]

Adams gas is amazing !

Also the Hobby weld is quite good too.

Stu

 

[AdventuresInMetal]

Here is an example of gas price variations between larger bottles. I imagine inputting the correct volume, price and pressure of the micro canisters will show a large uplift in cost.

Hobbyweld 9L @ 137 bar = 1.28m3 volume. £78.99 refill cost = £61.71 per m3 Argon.

Autoparts store 10L @ 200 bar = 2.07m3 volume. £35.75 refill cost = £17.18 per m3 Argon.

Machine Mart 60L Disposable Argon/CO2 £15.59 = £259.83 per m3
Machine Mart 110L Disposable Argon/CO2 £17.99 = £163.54 per m3
Machine Mart 60L Disposable Argon £11.98 = £199.66 per m3
Machine Mart 110L Disposable Argon £18.59 = £169.00 per m3

 

[caprinut]

It's rather too late to ask this question really, I've only got another couple of meters of serious welding 16-22 gauge to do apart from patches here and there, I spend most of my time in fabrication and research, I'm better on the mechanical and fitting side of this project, but I think it might be a bit of fun making a welding trolley though, I have 5-6 meters of dexion and the bloody things are heavy.
Argon and Hobbyweld are mentioned I've found myself better suited to CO2 only and would think pure argon is for aluminium and TIG only, I have none of that, but might try the argon CO2 mix I have again.

Bert

 

[angellonewolf]

co2 only is ok for thicker stuff the co2 mix is better for thiner welding

 

[Ubique]

Rent Free Gas Cylinders Mansfield​

rentfreegascylinders.com
Shirrell Unit 5 Oakwood Road Oak Tree Lane Mansfield NG18 3HQ Tel: 01623 700370 info@rentfreegascylinders.com

Website doesn't currently work, phone & email does
Refill costs:-
10l CO2 £20
20l 100% Argon @200bar £50
20l Argon/CO2 mix @200bar £50
If you don't have a bottle to refill (any brand), they'll sell you one.

 

[Shedendman]

co2 only is ok for thicker stuff the co2 mix is better for thiner welding

True,but on the few occasions the upside down Co2 fire extinguisher has got me out of trouble,it'll pass on thin stuff,just got to know how

 

[Barking Mat]

Don't move to France, ooph.

My mate gets them delivered from Poland !

 

[Ubique]

Don't move to France, ooph.

The guy I mentioned above has a Brit in France come over every couple of years for three big (50l?) bottles of Argon mix, reckons the fuel & ferry cost is less than one bottle in France.

 

[Barking Mat]

The guy I mentioned above has a Brit in France come over every couple of years for three big (50l?) bottles of Argon mix, reckons the fuel & ferry cost is less than one bottle in France.

He's probably right.

 

[Morrisman]

There are often comments on this site that the small bottles supplied by Machine Mart for their Clarke MIG welders are crap nobody has said why, if I went for say a half standard bottle I would have to make some time to make a welding trolley to haul that round the workshop.

Bert

£12 for ten minutes welding, is why they are crap. As opposed to several days welding for a proper bottle. Which obviously costs more, but is a tenth the price of the Halfords five-minute-wonder bottle.

 

[AdventuresInMetal]

In my opinion for anyone even considering using disposables, I would say don't and go with a 10L cylinder, they are still very portable, i've done a fair bit of mobile welding jobs for people without any sort of cart or trolley and i just tie them to something stationary, often one of my dewalt toughboxes. Even though the hobbyweld cylinders are more expensive then some of the others, its still significantly cheaper than disposables and the vast availability across the country is conveniant. Otherwise I just use 50L cylinders for stuff in/outside the workshop but they are an absolute pig to move around without a cart.

 

[caprinut]

After some investigation of the Clarke bottles, I found you have turn the regulator??? full on to get any gas, it's not a regulator it's an on/off switch confirmed by the guys at Machine Mart, I have no idea of how much gas I'm getting out and that's with a regulator off the machine the regulator on the machine dosen't give any at all. This came about after I swopped over from a CO2 bottle after I was advised too from this thread, the The CO2 bottle does give me gas on the No4 setting, I would get a much hotter flatter weld but porous having no gas with the argon /CO2 bottle it was a better weld overall but certainly no good for anywhere structural. I have concluded that the regulator? that Clarke supply is sh**e but the gas might be worth the extra expense if it could be delivered properly.

Bert

 

[AdventuresInMetal]

The disposables are never worth the expense under any circumstance ever in my opinion.

Assuming you were using the higher capacity disposables and had a quality regulator and everything set up under ideal conditions using the minimum gas flow rate possible, at absolute best you are paying around £1 per minute of weld, in the real world it will be closer to £2 per minute of weld.

In comparison even a 9L hobbyweld 5, which is far from the best value per liter is around £0.25 per minute of real world gas usage, for the same price of just 7 disposables, you can pay for both the fill (£50) and the deposit (£70). I would advise you just write the deposit off as a sunk cost of welding and keep hold of your cylinder forever and then every time you go for an exchange its only £50 Instead, that doesn't even get you 3 disposables.

It's just madness, welding on a friends car i've even used a full 9L hobbyweld cylinder in a day, but if i was using disposables instead i'd of had to charge him an extra £300 just to cover the gas expense!

 

[dave h 2]

After some investigation of the Clarke bottles, I found you have turn the regulator??? full on to get any gas, it's not a regulator it's an on/off switch confirmed by the guys at Machine Mart, I have no idea of how much gas I'm getting out and that's with a regulator off the machine the regulator on the machine dosen't give any at all. This came about after I swopped over from a CO2 bottle after I was advised too from this thread, the The CO2 bottle does give me gas on the No4 setting, I would get a much hotter flatter weld but porous having no gas with the argon /CO2 bottle it was a better weld overall but certainly no good for anywhere structural. I have concluded that the regulator? that Clarke supply is sh**e but the gas might be worth the extra expense if it could be delivered properly.

Bert

Bert,
If you are saying that you intend to continue with the disposables and get another regulator??
Proper bottle regulators are nearly the same price (extra £4) and come with two gauges so you can tell whats going on. It's possible that your gas valve in the welder is bad.

 

[JOEPRO]

The disposables are never worth the expense under any circumstance ever in my opinion.

Assuming you were using the higher capacity disposables and had a quality regulator and everything set up under ideal conditions using the minimum gas flow rate possible, at absolute best you are paying around £1 per minute of weld, in the real world it will be closer to £2 per minute of weld.

In comparison even a 9L hobbyweld 5, which is far from the best value per liter is around £0.25 per minute of real world gas usage, for the same price of just 7 disposables, you can pay for both the fill (£50) and the deposit (£70). I would advise you just write the deposit off as a sunk cost of welding and keep hold of your cylinder forever and then every time you go for an exchange its only £50 Instead, that doesn't even get you 3 disposables.

It's just madness, welding on a friends car i've even used a full 9L hobbyweld cylinder in a day, but if i was using disposables instead i'd of had to charge him an extra £300 just to cover the gas expense!

Exactly

Not to mention the fact there are heavy steel canisters which are disposable and likely go to landfill