EICR Testing 415v 32a sockets

[Gregwalker1981]

morning guys

I last got my eicr testing done September 2018 so its due this September 2023

my workshop was built 2005 and was fitted with 40 415v 32a 5 pin wall mounted sockets (see picture below)
ive had a few people in to quote me for my eicr one is telling me that my 32a sockets need to be changed to have an isolation switch on them
is this correct, the other person i had in to quote didnt mention it about changing the sockets,

these are the sockets i have on the walls around my workshop they are wired in to main board fitted to a MCB c32 breaker

the guy that said about the sockets needing changed is the cheaper quote so far,

thanks G

 

[hermetic]

I must admit I am a little surprised that they did not have isolators fitted when the installation was first done! I served my time in the late sixties and every socket we fitted had an isolator above it. From the EICR point of view, I dont think that new regulations are retro active, so if it passed five years ago it should pass now, BUT! from the electricity safety at work regulations, I was under the impression that every three phase outled must have a built in or immediately adjacent means of isolation, and unlike a lot of modern regulations, it is pure common sense to do this! replace with something like this.

32A 3P+N+E 415V Interlocked Switched Socket IP44

Suitable for small commercial and industrial applications

www.cef.co.uk

Probably not the answer you want to hear, but much cheaper than a lawsuit from an injured employee!
Good luck with it all!
Phil

 

[MetalMonkey]

Well, you isolate the circuit by unplugging it....

Perhaps they might mean is that the plug can't be used for functional switching?
This did change IIRC previously 32A or less didn't require any separate functional switching - i.e. you could just unplug it.
Above 32A it needed a separate way of switching the load off.

However this has now been amended so that 20A or less doesn't need it and 32A or above does. I believe it is table 537.4

In either case unplugging is still considered an appropriate method of isolation.
A separate isolator is never a bad idea though.

I would query why they think it needs an isolator.

Bearing in mind that the regulations can't be applied retrospectively.
I.e. If it was compliant when built, and isn't a new addition, then it still is acceptable irrespective of what regulations have changed in the meantime.
So I would suggest it could only ever be a C3 at worst.

I'm not up to speed with current regs, so I defer to those with more experience, but that would be my take on it.

 

[Matrixx]

Quote"Bearing in mind that the regulations can't be applied retrospectively."
Exactly.. new yes, but if already in then they don't need to be changed.

 

[brightspark]

the circuit has isolation at the main db its called an mcb. pulling the plug is isolation

 

[brightspark]

trouble is when getting testing done is 3 diffrent testers have there own take on whats passable and what isnt and they dont like it if you point it out to them

 

[sparkysy]

As said above they are existing so don't need changing.
It is indeed 537.4 and says that sub 20a plug can be used for both isolation and functional switching.
32a and above can only be used for isolation. So if being fitted new then would require an isolator.
And as @brightspark says ask 3 different sparks and get 3 different answers!

 

[Erie Fred]

the circuit has isolation at the main db its called an mcb. pulling the plug is isolation

I recall reading an accident where an employee plugged in a steam cleaner (440 vac 3 phase 50 amps or so) and the switch on the load was on.
So as the plug made contact, a large arc/explosion resulted.
Hot plugging is not a good idea.
Switching needs done in a controlled switch contact area.

 

[MetalMonkey]

I recall reading an accident where an employee plugged in a steam cleaner (440 vac 3 phase 50 amps or so) and the switch on the load was on.
So as the plug made contact, a large arc/explosion resulted.
Hot plugging is not a good idea.
Switching needs done in a controlled switch contact area.

That is why there is a difference between isolation and functional switching and why there are specific limits.

It is worth noting that typically most commercial machinery over here will be using some form of contactor and/or NVR switch to avoid any restart condition.

A lot of domestic stuff does too now, or at least has some form of "soft switch", so there won't be a load when it is plugged in, although obviously there may be an arc if you pull the plug out under full load

 

[Erie Fred]

That is why there is a difference between isolation and functional switching and why there are specific limits.

It is worth noting that typically most commercial machinery over here will be using some form of contactor and/or NVR switch to avoid any restart condition.

A lot of domestic stuff does too now, or at least has some form of "soft switch", so there won't be a load when it is plugged in, although obviously there may be an arc if you pull the plug out under full load

Yes.
We are seeing more installations of plugs with a safety switch up above, and mechanically linked, so you cannot install or remove the plug with voltage on.
Like this, but for higher voltage and more amperage:

https://www.lightingsupply.com/pass-and-seymour-ps330mir4w.aspx?msclkid=89652df09f381149356749508f01cc6d&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=All%20Products%20Shopping%20May%2021%202020&utm_term=4581046486295883&utm_content=Ad%20group%20%231

Here's another, this one is also EE rated:

Hubbell 3W 4P 60A Hazardous Pin & Sleeve Receptacle 600VAC VSQ6034 | Zoro

Order Hubbell 3W 4P 60A Hazardous Pin & Sleeve Receptacle 600VAC, VSQ6034 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Also seeing those integrated sockets with built in switching being applied as well.

 

[JOEPRO]

Besides from costs it would undoubtedly be safer to have an isolator at each outlet. That is what I would do if it was my premises, change them to switched outlets.

 

[hermetic]

we were fitting an isolator by every three phase socket in 1970, IEE regs demanded it!