Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[Agrismith]

If that's the case, why does every BEV I see on as daily basis have the AC turned off in summer and the heating turned off in winter - and a heavy coat & *shudder* driving gloves on the back seat in most cases? IF the battery is oversized as you say, then why do owners drivers of a medium-sized BEV suffer range anxiety despite this spare capacity you claim? Most of them have commuting journeys (we can see the charge state, journey time, distance travelled etc.) as the main usage, but still people won't use 'consumers' unless they absolutely have to.

I don't see that at all. Sat in traffic on the M25 yesterday and passed hundreds of Evs and out of all the cars both ice and ev you could count on one hand the amount with windows down and none of them where EVs . And there is no way anyone was sitting in a car on the M25 yesterday with the windows up and no Ac

 

[premmington]

Maybe because it's generally a trivial act to 'top up' am ICE vehicle? personally I do it once a month but that suits my usage and coincides with payday.

"splash and dash" - I do love that phrase....

 

[daleyd]

Our Leaf has a heat pump and we use heat or air con as required, usually on auto. We've never turned it off to get a few more miles.

Better still, we can turn on the heat remotely and it's toasty warm with clear windows on frosty mornings

Yep, same here - I’ve never not had heating or aircon off in 18 months. Range anxiety lasted about a week after we got the car and after that we forgot about it.

Got back from a holiday in west wales a couple of weeks ago with 4 people and a dog, and a boot full of luggage. Charged to 100% before leaving, job done. We could have charged while we were there if needed but didn’t bother.

 

[Agrismith]

Maybe because it's generally a trivial act to 'top up' am ICE vehicle? personally I do it once a month but that suits my usage and coincides with payday.

So therefore it is every benefit to make swapping out an ev battery a trivial act ??

 

[redlig]

But as we know the "general public" are not good at making sensible choices.

Lots are so dumb - I often wonder "how they actually feed themselves".

Others buy into things like a religion and are very blinkered.

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I am with you 100% with the consumption thing - this is one thing we do agree on mate...

We must not loose sight of the fact that we all make nonsensible choices on occasion and are all guilty to a lesser or greater degree.

 

[Ubique]

I don't see that at all. Sat in traffic on the M25 yesterday and passed hundreds of Evs and out of all the cars both ice and ev you could count on one hand the amount with windows down and none of them where EVs . And there is no way anyone was sitting in a car on the M25 yesterday with the windows up and no Ac

Well, maybe where I am they can't afford the extra electric? who knows? it's the internet so we have to take statements 'on trust', I could take photos but a) I'd probably be accused of setting them up and b) I'd have to remember to do it.

 

[daleyd]

Ah, (thinly veiled) insults. The last refuge.
I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but I've managed to work out that spending a LOT of money on an EV that objectively performs less well, but for a great deal more cost & risk than I get now.... isn't the best way to part with my hard-earned.
When it comes right down to brass tacks, I'm spending a lot less than you, & I have a more versatile vehicle that I can refuel anywhere within a few miles of any location - in a matter of minutes.

So... where can I get one of those Tee Shirts ?

It’s not a thrift competition. Everyone is free to make their own choices, they don’t have to be the same as yours.

No one is asking you or telling you should buy one.

 

[Ubique]

So therefore it is every benefit to make swapping out an ev battery a trivial act ??

A fuel pump generally has three choices, putting in (as mentioned above) £30 of fuel is a trivial act and barring queues, takes a couple of minutes with pay at pump. swap-out an EV battery for an exact replacement in ten times that and at a reasonable price (including credit for remaining charge in the pack and debit for cell state) and I'd be impressed.

 

[premmington]

A fuel pump generally has three choices, putting in (as mentioned above) £30 of fuel is a trivial act and barring queues, takes a couple of minutes with pay at pump. swap-out an EV battery for an exact replacement in ten times that and at a reasonable price (including credit for remaining charge in the pack and debit for cell state) and I'd be impressed.

Takes two of us a day and half to get a battery pack out of 330E to get to the SME - safety box - to change a fuse or the contactors.

If you can do it in 20mins - there is vacancy here for you old mate.

 

[GRW]

It’s not a thrift competition. Everyone is free to make their own choices, they don’t have to be the same as yours.

No one is asking you or telling you should buy one.

Yes, I know.
I was just making a (valid) point to the individual who considers me to be stupid for not agreeing with his viewpoint on the "merits" of EV ownership.

One day (probably helped considerably by legislative pressure over direct merit) an EV might (might) make sense for me. Costs need to be considerably lower and more viable though, and the infrastructure to facilitate their use much better - before "one day" will dawn.

 

[premmington]

It’s not a thrift competition. Everyone is free to make their own choices, they don’t have to be the same as yours.

No one is asking you or telling you should buy one.

But there is a "social conscience" boundry here that may have to crossed sooner or later.

The cost of motoring maybe driven up by this new developing tech and transport poverty could become a real reality.

The next lot of tech could be cheaper - but also it could be dearer - it is not hear yet...

 

[Ubique]

Takes two of us a day and half to get a battery pack out of 330E to get to the SME - safety box - to change a fuse or the contactors.

If you can do it in 20mins - there is vacancy here for you old mate.

Excluding the isolation, putting on a ramp, preparing the special tools etc., removing all the plastics, draining the coolant - refilling and bleeding the coolant, coding the battery and insulation tests, the actual swap of a ~600kg battery takes about 35 mins - for two EV tech's - is that good enough?

ETA - here is an EV battery, it actually forms part of the vehicle structure and as such, needs to have the rigidity, mass and physical dimensions to suit the vehicle it is fitted to - anything else will be outside of the type approval (less or more cells will change the mass and therefore the tyre wear and handling for example) and something fitted in an adapter frame will lack the rigidity, potentially compromising on-road performance and impact protection.

 

[Ubique]

Yes, I know.
I was just making a (valid) point to the individual who considers me to be stupid for not agreeing with his viewpoint on the "merits" of EV ownership.

One day (probably helped considerably by legislative pressure over direct merit) an EV might (might) make sense for me. Costs need to be considerably lower and more viable though, and the infrastructure to facilitate their use much better - before "one day" will dawn.

I doubt for most they will ever 'make sense' - overwhelmingly compelled due to legislation and taxation will be the prime drivers.

 

[Agrismith]

A fuel pump generally has three choices, putting in (as mentioned above) £30 of fuel is a trivial act and barring queues, takes a couple of minutes with pay at pump. swap-out an EV battery for an exact replacement in ten times that and at a reasonable price (including credit for remaining charge in the pack and debit for cell state) and I'd be impressed.

Already been stated that Tesla got it down to 90 seconds the first attempt may be expensive but has proven it is doable and with new battery technology every day who knows what the future will hold. And I can't see them doing any crediting or debiting. Simplest way is just paying an annual milage based subscription. This is likely to be the way car ownership if you can call it that goes anyway.

Multiple people have said they don't get range anxiety and aren't freezing their nads off in winter. And I highly doubt that Tesla's would be so popular if their heating was essential unusable.

You seem determined to write of ev ownership based on their physical attributes but in reality the only thing I can see holding them back is price. I think it's probably a sweet spot at the moment with enough infrastructure to cope with the amount of cars, but we have to very careful to keep this in balance in the future in terms of infrastructure upgrades and the uptake of Evs has the very real potential to outstrip the infrastructure. But for now as many on here have said it's not a problem. You can get nearly anything you want in electric, at a price, this is the next problem. I as well as others on here simply couldn't afford an ev that would do what we need of a vehicle. And there is a high chance that by the time I could afford an ev then they will be a thing of the past and superceded by another technology.

 

[GRW]

I doubt for most they will ever 'make sense' - overwhelmingly compelled due to legislation and taxation will be the prime drivers.

Exactly. If the EV cannot win over adopters en mass purely on performance merit (& to-date it cannot - yes they can make an EV have high performance and good range - but they cannot make them do so at a competitive purchase or lifetime cost).....

..... then "the answer" (demonstrably) is to increasingly penalise & restrict / outlaw any rivals or alternatives - and to do so heavily enough that the EV becomes the best (only) option by default.

 

[premmington]

I will leave you with a "copy and paste" of post I left on this forum on the 19th Nov 2020

Quote - un quote...

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But I have a recurring dream I would like to share with you!

Its 2040 - I have banned EV cars from my workshop.

I have a Hemi engine mounted in a RSJ cradle in the middle of my yard.

Familes with children are bringing bio fuel in plastic contaners in small quantities to me - they are gathering to hear the spectacle - the noise and splender - the flames from the open headers. The ICE (internal combustion engine) you hate - in all its glory!

I feel the excitement rushing thru my viens as I run this "monster" up to full chat...

Then it hits me - "my social conscience" - dulls the pleasure - the fog hits me.

I stand and look at these people - good people - but of no use - to your new world ..

These people have been left behind with the "Fourth Industrial Revolution" - these are the postman - van drivers - delivery drivers - tractors drivers. Self driving EV cars have left them redundant.

They are now growing food - subsistence farming - sharing their grop in a fermented form to rejoice a time when they had a use in society.

Silicon valley is not interested in their rural **** end of nowhere. And nor are you!

There will be winners and losers... There always is...

But my social concience goes way beyond what I drive to work in!

 

[daleyd]

If your typical purchase is a 10 year old + motor, then fairly obviously an ev which at most (barring Nissan leafs, which were pretty much the only ev around at the time) is going to be a couple of years old is probably not going to be an option. Currently.

And in 10 years from now you’ll still have the option to buy a 10 year old ice vehicle, that’s brand new as of today. In fact up to 2040 you’ll have that option, and very probably longer if the date for phasing them out gets extended, which to me seems very likely.

Ev cars will become more affordable as they become more commonplace and more secondhand cars come on the market. It’s still in its infancy, apart from Tesla and Nissan most mainstream manufacturers have been in the game for less than a couple of years.

 

[DAPPH]

I too don't hate EV's - I just see them as low mileage town cars.

All new cars are too expensive now - they just are!

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Running a car on a budget involves making some mathmatical choices it does and I am afraid at this point - I can't get the numbers to add up for an EV (I may into the future - I would not be dumb enuf to say "never")

My brand new Citroen Berlingo has an advised range of 213 miles on a good day fully charged and about 178 on a bad day when heater, radio & lights are on . It got its first home charge last night after me doing 93 miles . Whacking in power from the recorded 93 miles to take me back up to 204 miles ( solar PV & some time clocked off peak charging . Alison reckons getting the 111 miles back into the battery cost us less than £ 7.00 ..a far cry from the full tank of £100 or so for a full 380 mile tank on the Turismo diesel .

Speed range shows 99 mph available but I set the cruise controls to 70 mph .. honest , it handled well till I got a kick from the lane discipline control .

I need peoples thought on the lane discipline control for when I intentionally tested it I found it quite off putting to be pushed to the centre of a lane that has marking either side of me & I found that the steering became heavy for a few seconds . .

 

[Ubique]

Already been stated that Tesla got it down to 90 seconds the first attempt may be expensive but has proven it is doable and with new battery technology every day who knows what the future will hold. And I can't see them doing any crediting or debiting. Simplest way is just paying an annual milage based subscription. This is likely to be the way car ownership if you can call it that goes anyway.

Multiple people have said they don't get range anxiety and aren't freezing their nads off in winter. And I highly doubt that Tesla's would be so popular if their heating was essential unusable.

You seem determined to write of ev ownership based on their physical attributes but in reality the only thing I can see holding them back is price. I think it's probably a sweet spot at the moment with enough infrastructure to cope with the amount of cars, but we have to very careful to keep this in balance in the future in terms of infrastructure upgrades and the uptake of Evs has the very real potential to outstrip the infrastructure. But for now as many on here have said it's not a problem. You can get nearly anything you want in electric, at a price, this is the next problem. I as well as others on here simply couldn't afford an ev that would do what we need of a vehicle. And there is a high chance that by the time I could afford an ev then they will be a thing of the past and superceded by another technology.

Tesla can do it in 90 seconds - with a battery pack designed for it, they're not the only horse in town. How do you propose to change out other manufacturers battery packs when they are all different - even different across models? I have been accredited to work on BEV's in depth by JLR, PSA, Volvo and my current employers marque - not because I've been compelled to do it, but because I wanted to. I'm not anti BEV, but a realist as to what they are capable of and their limitations. You say 'multiple people' - well, that is a nebulous sample range, I can say with verifiable (to my employer, not you) numbers that I see over a hundred BEV's in a year - some of them repeatedly and my statement still stands, most if not all have the HVAC turned off.

 

[premmington]

Tesla can do it in 90 seconds - with a battery pack designed for it, they're not the only horse in town. How do you propose to change out other manufacturers battery packs when they are all different - even different across models? I have been accredited to work on BEV's in depth by JLR, PSA, Volvo and my current employers marque - not because I've been compelled to do it, but because I wanted to. I'm not anti BEV, but a realist as to what they are capable of and their limitations. You say 'multiple people' - well, that is a nebulous sample range, I can say with verifiable (to my employer, not you) numbers that I see over a hundred BEV's in a year - some of them repeatedly and my statement still stands, most if not all have the HVAC turned off.

I am level 4 trained as well - I just slower than you mate!

But from a business point of view - thats reality and making the job pay. I am so close to dropping any involvement with BEV's PHEV's at the moment. I don't see a future with them for me and my business as things stand now.

Things may change into the future - but the owners of these vehicles I deal with - demonstate a complete lack of reality to what they have bought and what is involved to repair them money and time wise. They think they are gonna run/repair an EV on fresh air...