Yes yes no...
Propane is a by product of refining oil.
The burn is cleaner than petrol or diesel can be cleaned to.
But, Nox emissions are increased. This could be reduced by water injection of course.
So not a clear cut argument...
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Propane is a by product of refining oil.
The burn is cleaner than petrol or diesel can be cleaned to.
But, Nox emissions are increased. This could be reduced by water injection of course.
So not a clear cut argument...
Erie Fred
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It could be a good step towards reducing emissions.
This "all or nothing" is failing.
DAPPH
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The government of the day does not have to ban things, just keep moving goal posts for conditions to be met ( thank you to the Screamie Greenies ) If you want to trade in the new arena then you have to get your thinking caps on and adapt .
DAPPH
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It might be that our conventional thinking of an engine or motor powered vehicle on wheels is going the way of the dinosaurs . Using battery & infra red power to push out a stream of ionized electrons might end up propelling / floating on an electron cushion vehicles able to not need hard surface s to travel over .
daleyd
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Maybe, maybe not, it’s certainly not at a large enough scale currently to compete.
It maybe that if it takes off and replaces petrol in the quantities we currently use then ICE will get a reprieve and carry on. Or even if not it can be used for things which just aren’t suited to battery power (of which undoubtedly there are many)
As I said, just because “something” is currently favoured it doesn’t mean that development stops on other things.
Morrisman
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They're pushing cycling here in the U.K. except the roads are so deliberately abysmal it's literally dangerous to cycle on many of them.
And even if you do take your life into your in own hands I can almost garuntee that when you arrive at your destination there won't be anywhere safe to leave your bike.
Supermarkets being some of the worst places without safe and secure bike parking!
Yes we seem to be able to cock up road design over and over. I was up in North Wales last week, the idiots have planted trees allong theAberystwyth to Newtown mountain road - right down tothe roadside....
cheb
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Is that to stop people being able to park on the verge?
You still dont seem to grasp the consequences of the government actions.
Even if, in 3 years time theres a reprieve, thats not going to help much. Car manufacturers plan model cycles many years in advance. Most will have ceased or be winding down development of ICE. For the reasons previously stated. You cant just chop and change you business on a ministers whim. Which sadly is increasingly how this country is run, and ceratinly one of the reasons im pleased that i dont own the business any more. The decisions become increasingly irrational and detached from reality.
Not being "favoured" doesnt stop development. Being banned by legislation certainly does.
Im not sure i can explain it any more than i have. Actions have consequences.
daleyd
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Of course actions have consequences. That’s the whole point isn’t it - to force change. What would be the point if nothing changed? We are being told by science that fossil fuels = bad - so “they” (as in governments worldwide) are forcing change upon us. That’s the whole crux of what they are trying to do. Some by legislating fossil fuels out of existence by emissions reductions, others by simply banning new petrol cars. But the result is the same, whichever way you want to look at it - ice is, as it stands at a dead end. Now as you rightly say something”may” come along and change that, but doesn’t it seem unlikely? And again, I’m not saying I particularly agree with anything that’s being legislated I’m just pointing out the realities.
What you are arguing for is to carry on as we are. I’d be happy with that, but it seems most of the bigwigs/science/“they” aren’t so here we are. You won’t just need to convince our government though…
“Being banned by legislation” is the reality of the situation - if they complied with legislation they wouldn’t be banned. It doesn’t matter whether they ban ice vehicles or they are banned because they don’t meet emissions requirements does it? The end result will be the same, manufacturers will look for something else.
Morrisman
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Morrisman
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Friend of mine works in our local Asda. They have a secure shed/cage for employees to leave their bicycles. Yet they were still being stolen.
CCTV was pointed at the cage and it was eventually found that some incredibly skinny local crack head girl was sliding herself under the edge of the cage, no more than a 6" gap according to my mate, blagging a bike that wasn't chained, then letting herself out through the door.
There's a card lock on the outside of the door, but you can simply open the door from inside. Employees have been advised to chain their bikes up now.
I get what you mean.
Look at other examples - strongly backing diesel cars and not backing nuclear - both very very strongly influenced, if not entirely driven, by governments and have led to something akin to turning the titanic around now. Trying to 'catch up' with a policy of building nuclear power stations is nigh on impossible given the timescales and just like some in this thread have indicated that EVs may be a temporary solution, one could have made the same argument for good nuclear power generation.
Government of any colour isnt well suited to this as policy changes as the party in charge changes, indeed, even as ministers change. Look at obamacare... he implemented it and Trump stopped it result = no progress over 15-20 years! - very much an outsider viewpoint as I dont reside there and found neither leader effective... although better than sleepy stumbly Joe perhaps... I don't know what the alternative is but putting these massive policy decisions in the hands of politicians seems a mistake... actually, perhaps you have hit on the alternative and if the aim is net zero, let industry work out how to get there.
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Pigeon_Droppings2
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My biggest fear with EVs are the batteries...from what I understand the self contained cocktail of lithium and oxides basically produces the potential for a self sustaining fire....unlike petrol where the "fuel" component can be smothered out with foam to exclude oxygen. Its fine if you can get out....but if you can't then what happens?
Did I get this totally wrong or am I right to be cautious?...
Did I get this totally wrong or am I right to be cautious?...
You're right. The fire that has torched quite a few Tesla's, is a chemical fire, started by a battery internal short-circuit (a few houses have been burnt out by e-bike battery packs doing the same trick).
As the fire is fed with all that it needs, then trying to extinguish it by starving it of oxygen/air / smothering it.... doesn't work.
In addition, the smoke/fumes emitted are VERY nasty. It wasn't widely broadcast, but when they introduced the "TT Zero" bike race at the IoM - the Marshals were specially trained, issued with BA, & warned to approach and E-bike fire from down-wind.
Also, in the build-up to introducing the electric race bike series into MotoGP.... the entire grids-worth of bikes went up in a massive conflagration at Jerez circuit. The circuits Pit Lane & garages, Stadiums etc weren't destroyed - because the e-bikes had been parked up instead in a marquee/tented area in the infield well away from the circuit infrastructure. A wise move.... but begs the question of why that wise move was seen as so necessary, eh?
Apparently, the energy density crammed into a modern EV battery - is higher than TNT - which in effect says that an EV.... is a wheeled bomb.
Granted, the likelihood of an EV battery pack shorting, igniting and then burning for hours is low... but the "seriousness of consequences" if it happens, is not good at all.
premmington
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Burning ship carrying lithium EV cars sank outside of the Azores
The cargo ship Felicity Ace, carrying thousands of cars, has sunk due to the fire onboard which occurred in mid February. The ship carried a large amount of electric cars, and the burning lithium on board is thought to have made extinguishing efforts much
www.ctif.org
Fire on Cargo Ship Packed With Porsches and VWs Is Reportedly Fueled by EV Batteries
Electric car batteries could complicate the attempts to put out the fire on the Felicity Ace.
www.roadandtrack.com
London Firemen Tackle Massive Blaze Involving Electric Cars Near Train Station - Zenger News
“Trains to and from London Bridge are affected and several buildings have been evacuated.”
www.zenger.news
Data Reveals Extent Of Electric Vehicle Fires Around The UK
Unique data gained by CE Safety has revealed a dramatic increase in fires caused by electric vehicle batteries.
cesafety.co.uk
Not a dialy occurrence - but it does happen.
My garage insurers - are upping the premiums due to us repairing EVs (any excuse to charge more money).
It occurred to me ages ago.... that how long will it be (if it hasn't already) - that the home insurance industry start liadong premiums (or excluding cover/liability for) homes with adjoining garages where the homeowner has an EV or Hybrid vehicle?Burning ship carrying lithium EV cars sank outside of the Azores
The cargo ship Felicity Ace, carrying thousands of cars, has sunk due to the fire onboard which occurred in mid February. The ship carried a large amount of electric cars, and the burning lithium on board is thought to have made extinguishing efforts much
Fire on Cargo Ship Packed With Porsches and VWs Is Reportedly Fueled by EV Batteries
Electric car batteries could complicate the attempts to put out the fire on the Felicity Ace.
London Firemen Tackle Massive Blaze Involving Electric Cars Near Train Station - Zenger News
“Trains to and from London Bridge are affected and several buildings have been evacuated.”
Data Reveals Extent Of Electric Vehicle Fires Around The UK
Unique data gained by CE Safety has revealed a dramatic increase in fires caused by electric vehicle batteries.
Not a dialy occurrence - but it does happen.
My garage insurers - are upping the premiums due to us repairing EVs (any excuse to charge more money).
Insurer's never miss a trick.
atomant48
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To be fair although the articles don’t state it explicitly - those sound like fires that were started {somehow} and then made worse by the presence of lots of EVs. So in answer to pigeon - yes I think you are being overly cautious. Just my view !!
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