Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

Bit of a funny way of looking at it. Yes a lorry would crumple a small car but lorry v lorry is a hell of a mess. So if we all drove lorries noone would end up a any safer

True... but I think Fizzy's point was about NCAP being the be-all-&-end-all of how "safe" a particular car is (as a stand-alone yardstick).
The lorry is an analogy (& there is huge diversity of vehicles on the roads).

Let's face it - if we were going to have to have a head-on Country Lane crash at (let's say) a combined speed of 30mph.
One car was a pretty recent VW "Up", the other a 1970's Volvo 240.
Which car would you prefer to be in?
(I'd be in the 240, & to hell with NCAP).

 

[GRW]

They started the overstay charges on the rapids here a few months ago but other than that paying for parking isn't really a thing here (we do have some pay&display but enough free options to easily avoid) so no real benefit for drivers leaving cars on the chargers.

I ask cos I dont know.
I did though recently spend a day working in Cardiff, at a Hospital site (not a main Hospital).
In the car park (which was public access & also was being used as a Covid Vaccination Centre) there were a couple of EV Charge Points..... & the same car was parked & plugged-in all day when I was on-site.

 

[GRW]

NCAP give more points for driver aids than ever. Some vehicles are just as safe in a collision as some others but their rating is down-graded if things like lane assist and auto lane changing are not included.

I'd detest any car that made autonomous actions like lane-changing. Hell I don't even like rain-sensitive Wipers!
I'll trust my own observation, attention & decision-making before any auto-system - because they simply cannot programme in the correct response to every possible scenario or set of circumstances (or won't provide the best system due to saving costs - like Tesla's autopilot systems mowing down motorcycles due to downgrading the system's scanning & recognition capabilities to save money).
NCAP gradings aren't going to influence my vehicle choice one bit.... but if a car has those auto-systems present - it'd dissuade me from considering it.

 

[m_c]

I thought electric motors have maximum torque at low revs not high revs? (from a standing start)

I've often heard that said, but if you drive a motor correctly, it's not true.
It comes from when motor control was far more crude, and the fact that if you take a motor and apply it's rated voltage while stationary, the lack of back emf from being stationary will result in excess current flowing, and it will produce more than it's rated torque. However if it doesn't start spinning, and there is nothing to limit/stop the current, then it's essentially a large induction heater and will quite quickly start smouldering.

Generally electric motors have constant torque from zero to rated RPM, if driven how they should be.
There are a few that will produce next to nothing at standstill, but I can't think of any that produce more.
Off course motors can be overdriven for short period of times, but motor temperature has to be monitored to avoid motor damage (or the motor characteristics accurately known, so temperature can be calculated from how much power is applied - this is the approach many servo motors/drives take)

 

[Morrisman]

Question. Can/Do EV owners (mis)use charge stations - I.e. use it as an all day Parking Space (plug in & say the car's charged in say 4-hours, but it's there all day while they are in the office)?

A decade ago my Norwegian boss offshore told me about the 'parking wars' that were going on in Oslo, where people put their EV in a (free) charging station, but left it for hours while they wandered round town. Very common problem even back then, when EVs were a tiny minority.

 

[GRW]

A decade ago my Norwegian boss offshore told me about the 'parking wars' that were going on in Oslo, where people put their EV in a (free) charging station, but left it for hours while they wandered round town. Very common problem even back then, when EVs were a tiny minority.

I'm not surprised. People are more selfish, & less concerned about being considerate than in the past, & the "FU, I'm alright" attitude prevails a lot more.

If there's no penalty or monetary charge for "charger hogging" then I would expect it to be a thing because of how people are.

These days some people will "hog" a petrol pump & blithely let others wait while they browse for ages in the shop, chat etc. when they are a few feet away - so when a car needs hours, not minutes.....

 

[northwest]

Using words like “milk float” and throwing out the same old stereotypes doesn’t really add much

I don't know, Milk Floats are great, I learned to drive in one and my mother (still driving at 94) passed her test on one.

Don't worry, duty on EV charging will happen at some stage. They will dye the electrons red so they can tell if you have sneakily charged your car from an unmanaged car charge point

Many a true word spoken in jest. The moment they crack cordless charging it's all over.

 

[daleyd]

 

[bricol]

These days some people will "hog" a petrol pump & blithely let others wait while they browse for ages in the shop, chat etc. when they are a few feet away - so when a car needs hours, not minutes.....

Well, other than the fact that when I used to work in a petrol station, you drive away from the pump without first paying, I'm on the blower to report a drive off!

The problem is petrol stations becomign a shop, not people "hogging" a pump

 

[bricol]

My Sd1 saved me at 75mph off the M4. 30 foot embankment. No crash barrier. Worse thing was the nosedive into a concrete drainage ditch. Then flipped upside down. Car crumpled perfectly. Roof held. Central door locking released. Fuel pump shut off. Worse than Princess Diana's crash as I stopped from 75 to 0 in a fraction of a second.
Very very lucky. Straight 6 engine and a big gearbox connected to the back axle stopped the engine ending up in our laps.
Don't think many modern cars would survive so well except perhaps a Range Rover.

You were wearing a seatbelt - the only person to survive her crash was the bodyguard in the front passenger seat - the one closest to the pillar it hit . . and he was wearing a seatbelt. The passenger compartment of that Merc was pretty much intact - as an advert for the strength of the thing, it was pretty impressive.

I'm still surprised no-one ever made a thing of it.

 

[bricol]

More to the point how much tech in a modern car do the owners even know about let alone know how to use it . Bit like white goods with 20 options only 2 of which are used. Tech is there to either cheapen the manufacturing costs or hook the gullible .

Tech?

My other half didn't know how to turn on the rear fog lights in her Fiesta!

She's an intelligent woman, working in the legal business with many millions of pounds deals, so I was a bit gob-smacked!

 

[bricol]

The Delorean was Stainless steel. Period

Brushed stainless bonded to a fibreglass shell if I remember.

 

[daleyd]

Hard to believe that anyone would look at data from road deaths/injuries over the years and suggest that older cars were, size for size, safer than newer ones. Not all the reductions are down to simply better car design of course but I’d wager that a good proportion of that reduction is down to better design, and the addition of modern safety features.

 

[aesmith]

this comes up all the time

It's already sorted, it's not a problem, it been understood for years before electric cars were even slightly normal

you literally just monitor grid frequency and match charging to grid frequency

over 50hz there's spare power so charge faster
let than 50hz there's a power deficit so charge less
ok.. there's much more advances ways to do it)

That's exactly the sort of thing needed, consumption adapting to available power rather than assuming we can draw whatever we like, whenever we like. But unless that's made mandatory and built into all chargers (is it?) or there's a financial incentive, then the guy with a non-adaptive charger is better off as he never has to wait for his charge.

I've also seen references to chargers that download next days pricing, for people on TOU tariffs where the price changes e very half hour. With the right tech you could tell the car/charger how much charge you want, and when you need it, and the charger would work out the cheapest times to get there.

 

[mtt.tr]

Three phase high voltage motors and integrated inverters won’t have much in command with dc and thyristors

Yup switched reluctance motor doesn't really compare to a big brushed motor

 

[Shox Dr]

For those wondering why EV's have such high power motors, it's all to do with getting enough torque to get them moving.
ICE vehicles have the benefit of multiple gears. EV vehicles only have a fixed gear.
You don't get 200hp from a 200hp motor at low RPM.

You could build an EV with a 50hp motor, but you'll either have to gear it so it can pull away on steep slopes with limited top speed, gear it for more top speed but not be able to get it moving on a slope, or fit a gearbox. However from a cost/reliability perspective, it's cheaper and more reliable to fit a bigger motor, than add the cost and complexity of a multi-speed gearbox.

60years ago NSU and the Likes didnt have a problem using a tiny motor coupled to a Variomatic transmission.
Constant torque, no gears. etc

 

[daleyd]

60years ago NSU and the Likes didnt have a problem using a tiny motor coupled to a Variomatic transmission.
Constant torque, no gears. etc

It’s not that they couldn’t do that, it’s whether it’s the best solution? Would you add an extra component in the drivetrain with associated losses, complexity and maintenance requirements or just stick in a bigger motor?

 

[mtt.tr]

It’s not that they couldn’t do that, it’s whether it’s the best solution? Would you add an extra component in the drivetrain with associated losses, complexity and maintenance requirements or just stick in a bigger motor?

Which probably costs the same in materials no extra assembly lines.

Plus you don't have to draw all the power all the time

 

[cheb]

It's not what I'd do, it's what the marketing department think their customers want who might make that decision.

I've a book on marketing failures somewhere, one of the case studies was a high end washing machine manufacturer who made a version of one of there machines with fewer washing programs. Customer surveys suggested that what customers wanted, the problem was not many people bought it, they bought the similar model, more expensive, but it had more programs.

The Daf 45 and 55 were seen as joke cars back in the day from what I remember. I can't comment as I 've never even sat in one let alone driven one.

 

[premmington]

Hard to believe that anyone would look at data from road deaths/injuries over the years and suggest that older cars were, size for size, safer than newer ones. Not all the reductions are down to simply better car design of course but I’d wager that a good proportion of that reduction is down to better design, and the addition of modern safety features.

When ABS braking became mainstream - bodyshop thru put dropped... That is a fact!