Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[fizzy]

If I hadn't just managed to get a new Ford Ranger on hire I was going to rent a smaller electric car and buy a Range Rover L322 for towing and longer trips.
I have nothing against electric cars but it is rather unfair as they don't pay fuel duty so other motorists are subsidising them. If fuel was only 60p per litre here I wonder how many people would bother?

 

[knighty]

credit it to them, Tesla have done a hell of a lot for the electric car market

 

[daleyd]

I believe the big motors & big performance of so many of the Tesla cars etc is for one reason (same as all the expensive demo's and competition entry specials like for the Goodwood Hill Climb).... its to win the hearts and minds of Joe Punter & encourage adoption.

To so many, their car is (they seem to think) a reflection of and indication of themselves (or at least, of how they wish to be perceived). So buying a "milk float" is decidedly uncool, but an EV that can out-accelerate an ICE hot-hatch, with an "impressive" Top Trumps" bhp & torque etc factsheet, is far more palatable & says better with the self-image.

They don't offer so many truly "sensible" & practical EV's simply because they know the market, & know the punter.... so really the reason why is because the buying public have their priorities shot to hell, and wouldn't buy them (but perhaps will in the future, when the cost of living becomes crazy).

Not really, I would imagine it’s like any new technology it’s introduced on high end motors (think s class mercs which always introduced the latest tech for as long as I can remember, certainly well back to the 80’s) and then moves down to more mainstream models.

Tesla, as a start up company needed something to showcase their product and also people willing and able to pay a premium in order to finance their lower range models which were introduced later. They didn’t have the luxury (pardon the pun) of having another range of cars to finance the start up.

Also the performance analogy between ice and ev doesn’t really stack up - high performance cars always come with the overhead of pretty dire fuel consumption. A big engine typically uses a lot of fuel even when you are bumbling around in them (I know there are exceptions). Even high performance Ev’s tend to still get really good efficiency when driven “normally”.

Now the tech is a little older there’s more and more “mainstream” Ev’s available which is only increasing.

Using words like “milk float” and throwing out the same old stereotypes doesn’t really add much to the argument either to be honest.

 

[brewdexta]

I have nothing against electric cars but it is rather unfair as they don't pay fuel duty so other motorists are subsidising them.

Not entirely true as not all fuel duty is spent on transport infrastructure, it just goes into a big pot where they spend money on daft projects that make their mates the most dosh.

Don't worry, duty on EV charging will happen at some stage. They will dye the electrons red so they can tell if you have sneakily charged your car from an unmanaged car charge point

 

[daleyd]

Not entirely true as not all fuel duty is spent on transport infrastructure, it just goes into a big pot where they spend money on daft projects that make their mates the most dosh.

Don't worry, duty on EV charging will happen at some stage. They will dye the electrons red so they can tell if you have sneakily charged your car from an unmanaged car charge point

Presumably similarly outraged by lpg conversions and people using veg oil?

 

[Erie Fred]

No worries, all vehicles will be equipped with GPS trackers, so you can pay your monthly travel bill online.
And your car will be dis-abled at any time, for pretty much every reason.

 

[aesmith]

“Seems like”

Seems to me that you have not actually bothered to fully check out the market?

There are quite a few below 200HP.

I've certainly not done more that browse a bit of material, but I was basing my comment on the fact that one of the currently recommended "budget" models the MG4 has 200HP in its long range version, and an article I read about expected budget models from Tesla and VW was expecting both to be over 200HP as well.

Your other points seem to be a bit contradictory, on the one hand saying that 200HP plus is needed because of lack of gears and the torque characteristics. Then on the other hand you say it's nonsense, there are plenty of EVs with smaller motors.

In hindsight it was probably misleading to quote that 200 figure anyway. My argument would be the same if I'd said 150HP, also much more than is needed.

 

[ukracer]

Are these electric cars not free to charge then?

Sort of explains the massive hike in leccy charges.

 

[daleyd]

I've certainly not done more that browse a bit of material, but I was basing my comment on the fact that one of the currently recommended "budget" models the MG4 has 200HP in its long range version, and an article I read about expected budget models from Tesla and VW was expecting both to be over 200HP as well.

Your other points seem to be a bit contradictory, on the one hand saying that 200HP plus is needed because of lack of gears and the torque characteristics. Then on the other hand you say it's nonsense, there are plenty of EVs with smaller motors.

In hindsight it was probably misleading to quote that 200 figure anyway. My argument would be the same if I'd said 150HP, also much more than is needed.

See my previous answer - it’s not really “hard” to make a more powerful electric motor, and if they do have more power then it doesn’t really translate into being less efficient when you don’t need that power, unlike an ice car where you need bigger/more complex engines which drink more fuel pretty much all the time.

Ours has a small motor, something like 11-12 secs 0-60. But the ones with bigger/more powerful motors have the same range/consumption figures.

 

[aesmith]

Now, I could, but I won’t, ask her to drive around in a 30 year old ford escort because of course that would do the job. But that’s not really going to happen.

Objectively, apart from the problem of finding one thats not knackered, why not? The most economical car we ever had the use of was the missus first company car, a 1985 Ford Orion. It return 65mpg average over her monthly mileage, vs just over 60 for the Escort that replaced it and the low 50's she got from her Peugeot. The Orion would go down the motorwaymotorway at well over the limit (I couldn't quite get 100 indicated), but nowadays there are too many cameras to travel much over 70 anyway.

 

[aesmith]

Are these electric cars not free to charge then?

Sort of explains the massive hike in leccy charges.

If or when the UK goes fully EV it will mean changes in the electrical service, or changes in how we use. Imagine if all 32 million cars were EVs and say 10% were put on charge after work, what sort of additional load would that put on the whole grid?

 

[daleyd]

Objectively, apart from the problem of finding one thats not knackered, why not? The most economical car we ever had the use of was the missus first company car, a 1985 Ford Orion. It return 65mpg average over her monthly mileage, vs just over 60 for the Escort that replaced it and the low 50's she got from her Peugeot. The Orion would go down the motorwaymotorway at well over the limit (I couldn't quite get 100 indicated), but nowadays there are too many cameras to travel much over 70 anyway.

The fact that I already explained, I am away a fair bit and don’t have the luxury of being at home to sort stuff out.

Also when I am home as much as I like messing with stuff, the prospect of getting under a car appeals less than spending time with my family.

Apart from that, I’d also quite like them to have modern stuff like airbags and things if it does go wrong.

 

[knighty]

If or when the UK goes fully EV it will mean changes in the electrical service, or changes in how we use. Imagine if all 32 million cars were EVs and say 10% were put on charge after work, what sort of additional load would that put on the whole grid?

this comes up all the time

It's already sorted, it's not a problem, it been understood for years before electric cars were even slightly normal

you literally just monitor grid frequency and match charging to grid frequency

over 50hz there's spare power so charge faster

let than 50hz there's a power deficit so charge less


(ok.. there's much more advances ways to do it)

but it's literally that simple, nothing else needed, a tiny computer chip can do it

 

[fizzy]

Presumably similarly outraged by lpg conversions and people using veg oil?

Not at all - good luck to anyone who can beat the system.

Mind you the whole thing is a joke. You get fined for running on red but you can use it to charge your car!

And then you see councils pulling stunts like this - Cardiff council being green and running electric bin lorries- no doubt the gennies are nowhere near Euro VI emissions but never mind it makes the council look cool

Cardiff Council using diesel generators to charge electric bin lorries

The council has said it's a temporary measure to mitigate a fault between its new vehicles and electric chargers

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[dobbslc]

 

[Erie Fred]

Not at all - good luck to anyone who can beat the system.

Mind you the whole thing is a joke. You get fined for running on red but you can use it to charge your car!

And then you see councils pulling stunts like this - Cardiff council being green and running electric bin lorries- no doubt the gennies are nowhere near Euro VI emissions but never mind it makes the council look cool

Cardiff Council using diesel generators to charge electric bin lorries

The council has said it's a temporary measure to mitigate a fault between its new vehicles and electric chargers

www.walesonline.co.uk

View attachment 401660

Should we suggest to the council that it would be better to mount the genset & fuel tank on a trailer, and hitch it to the back of the truck ?

 

[daleyd]

Not at all - good luck to anyone who can beat the system.

Mind you the whole thing is a joke. You get fined for running on red but you can use it to charge your car!

And then you see councils pulling stunts like this - Cardiff council being green and running electric bin lorries- no doubt the gennies are nowhere near Euro VI emissions but never mind it makes the council look cool

Cardiff Council using diesel generators to charge electric bin lorries

The council has said it's a temporary measure to mitigate a fault between its new vehicles and electric chargers

www.walesonline.co.uk

View attachment 401660

Well that’s typical council bad planning for you that quite obviously shouldn’t be happening but there you go, it does go on to say it’s a temporary fix to a problem but I guess that doesn’t sell newspapers.

I wouldn’t worry, once enough people have ev then any incentives will soon evaporate, I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to think that the government won’t get their slice of pie. In the meantime you should probably have a cup of tea and chill.

 

[Dilkris]

Everybody should be running Citroen 2CV's........

 

[keithski122]

I'd be quite happy to run an electric car if it met my needs and I could afford one.
On holiday last year and the resort we were in had a lot of scooters zapping all over the place, would have been a lot quieter and less smelly if they had been electric and also shows how its nicer to get the fumes and pollution away from where everyone is into a less densly populated area(power station.).

 

[m_c]

For those wondering why EV's have such high power motors, it's all to do with getting enough torque to get them moving.
ICE vehicles have the benefit of multiple gears. EV vehicles only have a fixed gear.
You don't get 200hp from a 200hp motor at low RPM.

You could build an EV with a 50hp motor, but you'll either have to gear it so it can pull away on steep slopes with limited top speed, gear it for more top speed but not be able to get it moving on a slope, or fit a gearbox. However from a cost/reliability perspective, it's cheaper and more reliable to fit a bigger motor, than add the cost and complexity of a multi-speed gearbox.