Was the heater not working in your car?
Or were you worried about running out of fuel?
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Or were you worried about running out of fuel?
Well.... my estate car cost me about 1/30th of a low-end diddy EV.
Tonight I put in £42 worth of petrol, which is maybe 300m driving in literally 2-minutes, plus 1 more minute to pay.
I get robbed on RFL for it (but thats going to coming for EV's too, mark my words). Even then, my outlay and Annual RFL amounts, when compared to the spend on an equivalent EV, leaves me a huge sum to spend on petrol before I'd get close to the EV spend, & without any hassle, Apps, waiting time, range anxiety etc etc.
Each to their own, but I know what I prefer (& I know they'll legislate cars like mine off the road to force ppl into EV's or onto public transport - but till that day comes....).
Tonight I put in £42 worth of petrol, which is maybe 300m driving in literally 2-minutes, plus 1 more minute to pay.
I get robbed on RFL for it (but thats going to coming for EV's too, mark my words). Even then, my outlay and Annual RFL amounts, when compared to the spend on an equivalent EV, leaves me a huge sum to spend on petrol before I'd get close to the EV spend, & without any hassle, Apps, waiting time, range anxiety etc etc.
Each to their own, but I know what I prefer (& I know they'll legislate cars like mine off the road to force ppl into EV's or onto public transport - but till that day comes....).
An ev would be perfect for my wife however between the facts she can't remember to fill up with petrol and that she can't remember to charge her phone I think there might be a problem. That and the fact they are unaffordable at the moment. We buy second hand budget brands and the maths on an ev just doesn't work out for us at the moment. Especially buying second hand we will have to see their long term life.
It amazes me how well they can engineer small cars if they want. I got a VW up as a courtesy car the other day and it was a really impressive piece of engineering. It's a small car but so spacious inside. More leg room than the new defenders or Discovery's yet would nigh on fit in their boot.
Everything is too big. I could do at some point with a new pickup but they are all so big in comparison to my old truck.
I would love a Tata bolero would do everything I need. Light off road work and Carry a chunk of tools. I don't need something the size of a lorry
It amazes me how well they can engineer small cars if they want. I got a VW up as a courtesy car the other day and it was a really impressive piece of engineering. It's a small car but so spacious inside. More leg room than the new defenders or Discovery's yet would nigh on fit in their boot.
Everything is too big. I could do at some point with a new pickup but they are all so big in comparison to my old truck.
I would love a Tata bolero would do everything I need. Light off road work and Carry a chunk of tools. I don't need something the size of a lorry
Cato
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"Electric vehicles are rubbish, they're no good to anyone."
"Electric vehicles are the future, they're perfect for everyone."
Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.
"Electric vehicles are the future, they're perfect for everyone."
Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.
daleyd
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Yes I know I was agreeing with you. When we wrote our list of reasons for not owning an ev there were quite a few, but being stuck on the road for 5 hours didn’t even cross our minds. I’ve been driving for 30 odd years, pretty much all of those well over 30-40k miles a year and it’s never happened.
I assume it’s been a thing in a newspaper at some point because when we got an ev it was one of the first things my father in law asked about.
When I asked him how often it happened to him in 60 years of driving he replied “well never”.
Barking Mat
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Daughter told me Sunday the biggest problem to her is that horses get really spooked by electric cars as they don't make any noise.
My mates got a Tesla and has no problems plugging in anywhere.
That's all I know about leccy cars in a nutshell.
My mates got a Tesla and has no problems plugging in anywhere.
That's all I know about leccy cars in a nutshell.
northwest
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I don't see why you are bringing the intellectual capacity of the population at large into the EV discursion, it is totally irrelevant though you WILL need a bit of gumption if you own an EV right now. THe point I am making and I think I am making it badly is this: We are being sold a pup. The infrastructure is quite simply not there, not yet and by forcing people into a corner you are not "selling a dream" you are p1$$ing people off AND causing real upset and hardship. The very first thing that needs to happen is an aggregator needs to be built to incorporate all the different Apps that we are forced to have, there you go, build the "Just Eat" of EV Apps and make your fortune. This is a real opportunity.
No, right now the people are being conned. Being conned into believing they are saving the world by driving a vehicle driven by Lithium Ion batteries. Total cobblers. Yes, there are a couple of people here who power their UV's using Solar, by and large the members of this forum are of above average capability and can work out practical engineering problems and come up with simple solutions. Not everybody can.
Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.
No, there is no binary stance anymore only a rainbow painted with shades of Grey :-)
Much better perhaps to say that Electric Vehicles are expensive and present operational difficulties to many."Electric vehicles are rubbish, they're no good to anyone."
"Electric vehicles are the future, they're perfect for everyone."
Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.
Also that EV's costs are well beyond the means of a great many, not just the very high purchase prices, but the high depreciation, and the unaffordable repair costs in the event of any breakdown.
EV's are a gamble that a great many of us simply cannot afford to take, as the bet is a sum we cannot afford to lose.
High stakes gambles are for the very foolish, or the very wealthy!
northwest
Searching for the Holy Grail.........
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^^^^^ one of the best posts in this thread, sums it all up nicely. The only reason my son got the car is it is very heavily subsidised for him and it really is a no brainer, if I could get the same deal I would jump at it. However, the practicalities of it won't work for me, I would need a second vehicle :-( So I might as well just stay with the one vehicle that does it all.
As a side note, in my youth I helped maintain my family's fleet of 28 electric Milk Floats so I am not new to electric vehicles, in fact I probably have more experience of electrics than any two people on here and it is a racing certainty I have spent more hours in one. So I am not unfamiliar with the concept or use of electrics and very familiar with the shortcomings. I also have the scars to show how you shouldn't do certain things with electric vehicles, I have had traction batteries blow up on me, set on fire in front of me and leak a good quantity of H2SO4 everywhere all without warning! Okay, Lithium don't leak Sulphuric but they DO burn with an intensity unmatched by any other battery.
I also have plenty of experience with the vagaries of charging them up.
As a side note, in my youth I helped maintain my family's fleet of 28 electric Milk Floats so I am not new to electric vehicles, in fact I probably have more experience of electrics than any two people on here and it is a racing certainty I have spent more hours in one. So I am not unfamiliar with the concept or use of electrics and very familiar with the shortcomings. I also have the scars to show how you shouldn't do certain things with electric vehicles, I have had traction batteries blow up on me, set on fire in front of me and leak a good quantity of H2SO4 everywhere all without warning! Okay, Lithium don't leak Sulphuric but they DO burn with an intensity unmatched by any other battery.
I also have plenty of experience with the vagaries of charging them up.
I have an i-pace, just coming up to 3 years of ownership
It has phenominal performance, range around 250miles, comfortable and plenty of leg room
Have put about 30k on it and it's been fault free apart from a failed inverter that charges the auxiliary battery
It's going next week or so as its a lease car, not planning on replacing it, nothing to do with it being electric it's just that new cars do not go with my lifestyle as I treat my cars as a van. Picked up an hydraulic press off a forum member and he was a little surprised at me stuffing it into the back of the Jag
Have done some big trips and used lots of public chargers, only had an issue once or twice finding a free working charger
oh missed your post earlier
that sounds really good, looking forward to test driving one :-)
daleyd
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I’m neither wealthy or foolish (well not in my eyes anyway
) but to answer a few points:Depreciation - similar or less than an equivalent ice car
Expensive failure - the same as any modern ice vehicle, with the addition of an 8 year as opposed to 3 year warranty on battery/drive system (eg engine/gearbox on ice)
I’ve said before that we bought an ev with an open mind, and no preconceptions. We spent the same amount as we would have spent on an ice car - of course if we aren’t in a position to buy a new car then we might have made a different choice, but there you go. Not for everyone (certainly if you aren’t able to home charge then it would be a non starter) but also if you take an objective view they aren’t quite as bad as some folk would have you think.
pressbrake1
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What make is your ev?
Barking Mat
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A good Tesla 400 hp ? Was €52k a couple of years ago.
pressbrake1
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Modern ice cars have serious amounts of electronics bombarded with heat, oil, coolant etc. German cars are total junkI’m neither wealthy or foolish (well not in my eyes anyway
Depreciation - similar or less than an equivalent ice car
Expensive failure - the same as any modern ice vehicle, with the addition of an 8 year as opposed to 3 year warranty on battery/drive system (eg engine/gearbox on ice)
I’ve said before that we bought an ev with an open mind, and no preconceptions. We spent the same amount as we would have spent on an ice car - of course if we aren’t in a position to buy a new car then we might have made a different choice, but there you go. Not for everyone (certainly if you aren’t able to home charge then it would be a non starter) but also if you take an objective view they aren’t quite as bad as some folk would have you think.
I like the mrs little leaf , I like everything about it apart from the small battery that’s non thermally managed . I like that the firmware is open source now . I’m comfortable with with inverters encoders and high power electric motors. I like that it’s not a German car which suffer from dog unreliable but with a nice interior and pleasing door clunk
indy4x
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Obviously not, but in reality I can't remember the last time I was standing still in winter for anywhere near that length of time
Given that it's got an 80kw battery pack, pretty sure it would take way more than 4 hours to flatten the batteries even in winter
Probably 12 years ago I got caught in an almighty jam and didn't move for 2 hours
These are all of the myths that seem to be spread about EV's
Not saying they are perfect, whatever vehicle you have is a compromise
pressbrake1
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Three phase high voltage motors and integrated inverters won’t have much in command with dc and thyristors
Depreciation... May be similar to some (certainly not all) NEW ICE cars (though of course you can get a new ICE car for rather less than the cheapest EV).I’m neither wealthy or foolish (well not in my eyes anyway
Depreciation - similar or less than an equivalent ice car
Expensive failure - the same as any modern ice vehicle, with the addition of an 8 year as opposed to 3 year warranty on battery/drive system (eg engine/gearbox on ice)
I’ve said before that we bought an ev with an open mind, and no preconceptions. We spent the same amount as we would have spent on an ice car - of course if we aren’t in a position to buy a new car then we might have made a different choice, but there you go. Not for everyone (certainly if you aren’t able to home charge then it would be a non starter) but also if you take an objective view they aren’t quite as bad as some folk would have you think.
However, the planet is awash with much cheaper USED ICE cars, cars that represent a high potential for reliability & reasonable operating cost, with no discernible increased risk of failure.
In addition, faults can be repaired at lower cost than say Inverters in EV's, while used & aftermarket components are readily available.
Mfrs ARE narrowing the gap in operating & opersting life costs between ICE & EV for sure.... but they are doing so by making the ICE more electronically complex and coded, poorer built & less-corrosion-resistant, less reliable and far more costly to repair.
There can be little doubt that there is a concerted & combined/colluding effort by the car industry to drive sales by making the car increasingly into a consumer-disposable product, instead of a durable.
Looked at purely as what it is - a mode if transport, and viewed objectively - the modern new car does nothing whatsoever appreciably better than its counterpart of 25-years-ago - to claim otherwise is ludicrous and demonstrably not the case. The reality (once you get past all the sales fluff & marketing flim-flam) is that they do the same job, but at appreciably higher cost, with a shorter operational life, and very often with poorer reliability.
All of which, are very sound (economic & practical) reasons to avoid EV's (AND any new ICE car).... because they simply are too expensive, offer bad VFM, and any benefits in cost per mile in fuel, are lost with interest just about everywhere else.
I run an old car because it saves me a small fortune, for no real penalty in terms of performance & fitness for purpose (in fact it has a solid chance of edging ahead in these areas - & if it fails beyond redemption, I still only stand to lose perhaps the equivalent of a couple of months depreciation value on a new EV.... probably less than that).
You may have thought it through.... but so have I
daleyd
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You’ve made the right choice for your circumstances as have I.Depreciation... May be similar to some (certainly not all) NEW ICE cars (though of course you can get a new ICE car for rather less than the cheapest EV).
However, the planet is awash with much cheaper USED ICE cars, cars that represent a high potential for reliability & reasonable operating cost, with no discernible increased risk of failure.
In addition, faults can be repaired at lower cost than say Inverters in EV's, while used & aftermarket components are readily available.
Mfrs ARE narrowing the gap in operating & opersting life costs between ICE & EV for sure.... but they are doing so by making the ICE more electronically complex and coded, poorer built & less-corrosion-resistant, less reliable and far more costly to repair.
There can be little doubt that there is a concerted & combined/colluding effort by the car industry to drive sales by making the car increasingly into a consumer-disposable product, instead of a durable.
Looked at purely as what it is - a mode if transport, and viewed objectively - the modern new car does nothing whatsoever appreciably better than its counterpart of 25-years-ago - to claim otherwise is ludicrous and demonstrably not the case. The reality (once you get past all the sales fluff & marketing flim-flam) is that they do the same job, but at appreciably higher cost, with a shorter operational life, and very often with poorer reliability.
All of which, are very sound (economic & practical) reasons to avoid EV's (AND any new ICE car).... because they simply are too expensive, offer bad VFM, and any benefits in cost per mile in fuel, are lost with interest just about everywhere else.
I run an old car because it saves me a small fortune, for no real penalty in terms of performance & fitness for purpose (in fact it has a solid chance of edging ahead in these areas - & if it fails beyond redemption, I still only stand to lose perhaps the equivalent of a couple of months depreciation value on a new EV.... probably less than that).
You may have thought it through.... but so have I
I wouldn’t presume you to be either poor or super intelligent for making such a choice, not sure why you would think I would be stupid or wealthy for not making the same choice as yourself?
They are of course not going to be a top choice for someone looking for a sub £1000 workhorse but you are not comparing apples with apples there. I wouldn’t comment on a thread asking for advice on “what car can I get for £1000” and suggest a new ev. That would be madness.
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