Powder coating expectations

[grim_d]

I largely gave up painting my steel furniture for many reasons Instead looking to sub it out to powder coaters.

Problem is I have nothing but trouble with them. 75% of stuff goes back to be redone, at the moment I have a frame that is about to be done for the 4th time.

I have used 3 separate coaters, all with similar issues.

They come back covered in fish eyes, grit in the coating, inconsistent finish (some smooth, some rough), bubbles etc..

I, and my customers expect the finish to be as free from imperfection as is possible, like a painted finish, I spent a great deal of time where necessary blending welds etc so they look their best. Am I expecting too much from the accepted standard of powder coating?

 

[AVI_8]

I would have thought that before powder coating the surface should be cleaned in a similar manner as to spray painting, to get rid of any oils, silicone and impurities etc, looks like they’re not cleaning it properly before the coating application.

 

[OJCar]

Sounds like you are being unfortunate in your choice of Powder Coater.
Some have decidedly rough standards of "workmanship".

Have you considered setting yourself up to do powder coating?
Then you would have total QC control and not have to wait in a queue.
It is not hard to do, just requires practice.

AVI_8 you're quite right the items should be de-greased before blast cleaning and again afterwards before Powder Coating.
I doubt this will have been done - hence the faults.

 

[steveo3002]

wonder what sort of customer is accepting that work

 

[Gragson]

I have used one good powdercoating place and everything was blasted and then baked to burn off any residual oils. It was expensive

Same here, but going back a while on custom bike builds. I didn't get stuff back with those finish issues.

@grim_d I think your expectations are fine and the quality of finish poor.
Bu given you've tried 3 coaters and 75% of stuff needs to be redone, you're either very unlucky, the coaters are rubbish, or something going on with steel prep?

 

[Robert Weaver]

I too have had bike bits (frame, swing arm, mounts) powder coated and not had problems.

I don't think your expections are too high, and I think you're unlucky.

 

[James1979]

That’s no good. I wouldn’t accept that.

If it was one or two coaters I’d say they were crap but if they’re all getting similar results maybe it is steel or a contaminant?

I had a problem where the PTFE lube on the plasma table was getting on the steel and their prep wasn’t removing it. Took us ages to narrow down what it was.

 

[James1979]

Some swatches he did for me to show customers various colours before they signed off on stuff

 

[grim_d]

I would have thought that before powder coating the surface should be cleaned in a similar manner as to spray painting, to get rid of any oils, silicone and impurities etc, looks like they’re not cleaning it properly before the coating application.

That’s no good. I wouldn’t accept that.

If it was one or two coaters I’d say they were crap but if they’re all getting similar results maybe it is steel or a contaminant?

I had a problem where the PTFE lube on the plasma table was getting on the steel and their prep wasn’t removi isng it. Took us ages to narrow down what it was.

The images of the contamination are not necessarily indicative of every job that I'm not happy with, just photos I had taken recently.

Grit trapped in the coating is very common too.

Both Indicative of not enough cleaning though.

Another one is they are using hooks to move these things about whilst the coating is soft and damaging it in visible areas. I always provide discreetly located holes to hang them from.

Sounds like you are being unfortunate in your choice of Powder Coater.
Some have decidedly rough standards of "workmanship".

Have you considered setting yourself up to do powder coating?
Then you would have total QC control and not have to wait in a queue.
It is not hard to do, just requires practice.

AVI_8 you're quite right the items should be de-greased before blast cleaning and again afterwards before Powder Coating.
I doubt this will have been done - hence the faults.

3 coaters, all have identical issues, they only want to do wheels or rough commercial stuff.

I'd love to do it myself but it's investment I simply cannot afford, not making enough steel frames stuff to justify, some of it is quite big too so the size if the oven and it's associated running costs would be hilarious, not to mention the considerable space it would consume.

I have thought about packing it all in and starting powder coating, definitely seems to be a gap in the market for quality round here.

 

[RIP]

There's a mis understanding of why powder coating is used. It's a quicker, cheaper coating that gives an adequate finish. Somehow this has morphed into a myth that powder coating is a high end process.

 

[grim_d]

There's a mis understanding of why powder coating is used. It's a quicker, cheaper coating that gives an adequate finish. Somehow this has morphed into a myth that powder coating is a high end process.

I don't think that's quite accurate.

Either way, the "adequate" finish is far from adequate, particularly when I explain to them it's for furniture.

 

[OJCar]

One of the reasons the business I formerly was a partner in,
started to offer Powder Coating was to reduce the level of solvents used.

Some items we found, because of their shape, could not be satisfactorily powder coated,
so we insisted they were done by wet paint method.

The problem grim_d is suffering is crap workmanship by the Powder Coaters he is using.

 

[julianf]

Powder coating in the states is more expensive than it is here, but, if you go on the american forums, the photos of finish is really quite impressive (it will still suffer in all the usual ways, however)

Anyway, I think things like outgassing are (more) standard there, whilst here people look at you blankly.

Against my better judgment I got some wheels blasted and coated a while back. They were rubbish. I queried it and the answer was "due to contamination"

(as mentioned prior in this thread, outgassing seems standard elsewhere but not in our country)

 

[James1979]

Fair enough. My powder coater does it as a side job but he’s busy with it. Thinking about full time.

He made the whole thing himself and used a burner out of a oil heater.

I can get more info if you want.

There’s amother guy here who does it but his is backwards. He heats the metal in an oven then puts it in a tank with powder under the floor and blows it up with fans. Then back in the oven.

That’s a bit scruffier but it lasts well. That guy makes creels and coats his own.

 

[brightspark]

I have used one good powdercoating place and everything was blasted and then baked to burn off any residual oils. It was expensive

hence the quality of the work. you get what you pay for

 

[grim_d]

Proper powder coating costs a fortune. A company i used to work for done it to military specification with 25 year life span.
I'll happily pass their details on. Their oven is about 8ft x 8ft x 15ft

Think they might be a bit far!

hence the quality of the work. you get what you pay for

Couldn't be further from the truth. Plenty of people out there charging a premium for shoddy work.

I'm more than happy to pay for quality work, Seems to be somewhat sparse round here though. If I have to spend two hours and fuel taking and collecting one item to a powder coaters it somewhat prices me out of the market though.

 

[James1979]

Think they might be a bit far!



Couldn't be further from the truth. Plenty of people out there charging a premium for shoddy work.

I'm more than happy to pay for quality work, Seems to be somewhat sparse round here though. If I have to spend two hours and fuel taking and collecting one item to a powder coaters it somewhat prices me out of the market though.

Opening in the market?

 

[grim_d]

Opening in the market?

For a decent powder coater? It does genuinely feel that way sometimes. Enough of a market to be viable? I don't know.

There certainly not much of a market (in my locale) for high quality furniture, people don't want to pay.