- Thread starter norsa
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norsa
old school painter
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It's all old skool because I am. We're never too old to learn new tricks of course.
stuvy
Member
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Have you got a
decent pub locally for evening drinks and meals
Cheap b&b
Lunch on site with dietary requirements
Decent toilets
Parking for 4/6/8 cars during the day without upsetting neighbouring businesses
Have you got enough welding lids for people to use when showing how to plug weld
Obviously insurance to cover visitors as we all know grinders bite hard
Do you have a page on Instagram/faceache or visit the classic car shows to pedal your business(auto sport at the nec would be good research next week)
When I was younger I’d have done a course but I got a job doing body work and restos to pick my skill level up quicker
As previously asked what are you going to focus on?
Repair panels
Lead work(I’d be interested)
Gas brazing?(I’d be really interested)
Mig welding
Tig welding
Grinder tuition
Fabrication
Hanging doors/wings/bonnets
Paint prep
Spraying
Lacquer(I’d honestly say it’s a separate course)
Mopping/cutting back
If you haven’t thought of an exhaustive list you need to thrash this out first
decent pub locally for evening drinks and meals
Cheap b&b
Lunch on site with dietary requirements
Decent toilets
Parking for 4/6/8 cars during the day without upsetting neighbouring businesses
Have you got enough welding lids for people to use when showing how to plug weld
Obviously insurance to cover visitors as we all know grinders bite hard
Do you have a page on Instagram/faceache or visit the classic car shows to pedal your business(auto sport at the nec would be good research next week)
When I was younger I’d have done a course but I got a job doing body work and restos to pick my skill level up quicker
As previously asked what are you going to focus on?
Repair panels
Lead work(I’d be interested)
Gas brazing?(I’d be really interested)
Mig welding
Tig welding
Grinder tuition
Fabrication
Hanging doors/wings/bonnets
Paint prep
Spraying
Lacquer(I’d honestly say it’s a separate course)
Mopping/cutting back
If you haven’t thought of an exhaustive list you need to thrash this out first
I always think ,,
find your customer [ who has cash spare ]
work out what they want ,, [ not need ]
then plan how you can swap one for the other with the least effort .
jobs a good un.
ajlelectronics
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- Gloucester, England
The secret to selling is GENERATE the need / want in your customer. This is why a salesman will always put the item in your hands, amongst other methods. Spare cash is then irrelevant.
sell me this pen.
ajlelectronics
Member
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It isn't difficult. One of the courses I studied in the late 80s was called "American Salesmasters". Zig Ziglar** had something to do with it, he has around 30 "how to sell etc" tomes on the market. It really was a corny and obvious method and anyone should recognise it coming. However when tempered to the UK market and adjusted to be "normal" conversation, it became VERY powerful. Little tiny things are useful, many of the questions posed deliberately to get a positive response, which doesn't need to be relevant...
"Thanks for seeing me today, is that your lovely car on the drive?".
"I'll bet it is nice to drive?"
"You clearly appreciate the quality stuff in life" << Subliminal, if they are discerning, then they agree that they will be interested in your quality product.
The idea being that saying yes becomes habitual during the 'presentation'. Lots more techniques available here, the most important being to generate the want / need by allowing the customer to use and handle the product, they will imagine themselves actually using it.
Phraseology is important, for example "You wouldn't have change for tenner would you? is a negative question which will usually get negative answer. "Do you have change for a tenner?" being the positive version. Likewise, feelings and thoughts. Feelings are emotional, thoughts are logical, so never say "What do you think of this (product)", you say "How do you FEEL about this (product)".
Then once the customer is on the hook, you can close with such like as "Would you like the red pen or the blue one?". "Would you prefer to pay cash or by card?"<< Choice of two positives.
If as sometimes happens, you get "I need to speak to John first" or "I want to think about it", there are methods to counter those too.
**
Always be Positive
One thing that Zig Ziglar and almost every other successful person have in common is that they have a positive outlook on life. However, you could argue that Ziglar took this to the extreme.Nevertheless, one of the things that Ziglar preached in particular was to have a positive outlook on just about everything in life. In fact, many of his books and speeches dedicated a large portion to being positive.
Broken your leg? Your crutches get you to the front of the queue at Disneyland. Your company has gone under? Time for you to relax (sort of). Your car has just been scratched? Time for new car color!
By being positive almost all of the time, you are able to see the whole picture- the best parts of a bad situation. Buy doing this, you remove emotion from a tough decision, or you just generally make yourself feel better!
I think there is a very fine line between being positive and being in denial.
ajlelectronics
Member
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Elucidate please?
norsa
old school painter
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Thanks for the input. I will take on board your suggestions. It's all got a bit out of proportion. As I've stated, this will be a basic bodywork course using available hand tools as requested by many of our later in life clients who frequent our monthly car shows and a number of PMs from within the forum so I don't need to market the scheme.
Burdekin
Chief Bodger
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I'd look at doing 3 x 40hr classes; beginner, intermediate and advanced.
Have a look at the courses Gavin Pink does for spray painting. A paint brand may sponsor these as well to promote their brand.
Contour Autocraft are a big one in metalshapping courses, they might be good to see how they structure and run their courses for ideas.
I would do hands on rather than cram a day of this is how you do it, a few days or a week of guys learning after you show them.
Have a look at the courses Gavin Pink does for spray painting. A paint brand may sponsor these as well to promote their brand.
Contour Autocraft are a big one in metalshapping courses, they might be good to see how they structure and run their courses for ideas.
I would do hands on rather than cram a day of this is how you do it, a few days or a week of guys learning after you show them.
id sign up for one of the popular courses ,,
attend and pay great heed to it all
and copy it.
But If you have your clients as stated above and now have more from pm's ,,, and didnt really want the feedback from the thread ,as stated ,,, then this whole post was actually just a bit of marketing ,,, either very clever ,{ or not} . Good job Im not cynical ,,,, then again Im not your target either.
attend and pay great heed to it all
and copy it.
But If you have your clients as stated above and now have more from pm's ,,, and didnt really want the feedback from the thread ,as stated ,,, then this whole post was actually just a bit of marketing ,,, either very clever ,{ or not} . Good job Im not cynical ,,,, then again Im not your target either.
norsa
old school painter
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Great advice thanks
I do restore classic cars as a hobby and have taught myself basic panel beating, metal shaping, lead loading and some paint. But....... there is a big difference between watching a youtube video and having multiple goes yourself (which I have and do enjoy when I have the time) and getting hands on with a real expert to guide you.
Case in point, a few years ago I went on the metal scraping course that pete organised. 3 day residential (sleeping in my van in -3 deg
) but what I learnt in those days could never have been learnt watching YouTube in a month of Sundays.
Point being, spending a day or two in an organised class with an expert giving you advice as you play with the stuff is brill. I would defo be up for these sorts of sessions, along the lines maybe of Wray Schelin's classes he seems to run in the US? Doesn't have to be quite as high end as his to start with but topics I would enjoy (even though I have learnt some of the stuff already) would be:
- metal shaping/panel beating
- lead loading
- body prep (primers, fillers, flatting etc)
- TIG welding (I would love to do gas but for the hobbyist it is just to difficult with bottle storage/insurance etc)
Final paint is less interesting for me as, unless you have a really good workshop with ventilation and dust management I will pass the final work off to a proper bodyshop. I do intend to do basic prep, epoxy primer etc myself though and would do all the metal work and use lead loading so whatever I produce isn't a sledge to carry loads of bondo
Cheers,
MM
Case in point, a few years ago I went on the metal scraping course that pete organised. 3 day residential (sleeping in my van in -3 deg
) but what I learnt in those days could never have been learnt watching YouTube in a month of Sundays.Point being, spending a day or two in an organised class with an expert giving you advice as you play with the stuff is brill. I would defo be up for these sorts of sessions, along the lines maybe of Wray Schelin's classes he seems to run in the US? Doesn't have to be quite as high end as his to start with but topics I would enjoy (even though I have learnt some of the stuff already) would be:
- metal shaping/panel beating
- lead loading
- body prep (primers, fillers, flatting etc)
- TIG welding (I would love to do gas but for the hobbyist it is just to difficult with bottle storage/insurance etc)
Final paint is less interesting for me as, unless you have a really good workshop with ventilation and dust management I will pass the final work off to a proper bodyshop. I do intend to do basic prep, epoxy primer etc myself though and would do all the metal work and use lead loading so whatever I produce isn't a sledge to carry loads of bondo
Cheers,
MM
norsa
old school painter
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All very valid and well written. I can, and have passed on 40+ years of experience one on one which as you say, can not be emulated by watching videos. Now the thing is, as you have pointed out, there are so many fields to bodywork that I need to find out what my students to want to learn. If for example, only one person wants to learn the English wheel, it would be pro rata more expensive than to teach a class of 10.
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Agreed, for example I would love to learn wheeling but after 5 years of looking the chances of finding a wheel I can afford other than buying one of Clives ones is remote
so for me that is a limited audience, whereas the more "accessible" skills like panel beating, metal shaping, lead loading, body prep etc would be far more popular?Cheers,
MM
Hi Norsa, Did you take this idea any further? My son wants an intro (probably just a day) to using panel hammers and dollies. He has them and uses them in a very general way but wants to know more about techniques to practice. Is that the sort of thing you were thinking of?
Cheers, Chris
Cheers, Chris
norsa
old school painter
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I have to be honest, health and safety issues were a big stumbling block so I stick to one on one here as far as i can. I'm not a panel beater but obviously have the tools. The purists will obviously say it is an acquired skill but for my needs I just advise lots of small taps against an appropriately shaped dolly is better than beating seven bells out of it as it stretches the metal which may lead to tin canning. Again, Heat can relax the metal structure and help it retain its memory but that can go tits up if its not done correctly.
Nick
Nick
