anyone good with hydraulic systems?

[finyuk2005]

Hi there,
currently trying to engine swap a Genie cherry picker, from 36v DC to diesel engine driven,
problem i am facing is how to power two manifolds with one hydraulic pump, as each manifold had a separate motor and pump before,
I just tried a T piece but i think pressure is just flowing through the opposite manifold as i try moving the boom, id guess just using the path of least resistance?

I did try flowfit, but im not sure he quite got what i was meaning as he advised i use a simple flow diverter valve that evenly splits the flow both ways, but wont it still take the easiest route? or I am being daft?!!

I think this would solve the problem,

Walvoil 1 Bank, 3/4 BSP, 100 L/Min, Double Acting Cylinder Spool 3 Positions, Spring Return with 24VDC, Electro Solenoid Control, C/W Manual Over-Ride

All valve options shown are for open centre applications only, Please ask our technical department for closed centre options. Double acting spool 3 position 3/4"" BSP, 24VDC electro solenoid control c/w manual over-ride Double acting cylinder spool 3 positions spring return 3/4"" BSP with 24VDC...

www.flowfitonline.com

but thats dear enough!! would it work if i was to series up the two parallel manifolds by going in one pressure port, out the tank port and into the next manifolds pressure port and then out to the tank?

cheers for any help,

 

[8ob]

Hi there,
currently trying to engine swap a Genie cherry picker, from 36v DC to diesel engine driven,
problem i am facing is how to power two manifolds with one hydraulic pump, as each manifold had a separate motor and pump before,
I just tried a T piece but i think pressure is just flowing through the opposite manifold as i try moving the boom, id guess just using the path of least resistance?

I did try flowfit, but im not sure he quite got what i was meaning as he advised i use a simple flow diverter valve that evenly splits the flow both ways, but wont it still take the easiest route? or I am being daft?!!

I think this would solve the problem,

Walvoil 1 Bank, 3/4 BSP, 100 L/Min, Double Acting Cylinder Spool 3 Positions, Spring Return with 24VDC, Electro Solenoid Control, C/W Manual Over-Ride

All valve options shown are for open centre applications only, Please ask our technical department for closed centre options. Double acting spool 3 position 3/4"" BSP, 24VDC electro solenoid control c/w manual over-ride Double acting cylinder spool 3 positions spring return 3/4"" BSP with 24VDC...

www.flowfitonline.com

but thats dear enough!! would it work if i was to series up the two parallel manifolds by going in one pressure port, out the tank port and into the next manifolds pressure port and then out to the tank?

cheers for any help,

If its a twin pump system fit a twin pump. the danger you run buy joining the two supplies together is the risk of pulling two levers and the greater load from one block back feeding the other. Eg; lifting and slewing at the same time could possibly make the lift drop or speed up the slew as it drops or the other way around.

Bob

 

[Rannsachair]

Do you have a circuit diagram for the Genie?

 

[merryman]

Any diesel powered system I have come across runs the pump all the time, and the hydraulic spool valves allow flow back to the tank until moved, when they then divert it into the ram. With electric motors the first part of lever movement switches on the pump, which then pushes oil through the valve into the ram, so no free flow of oil when valves are in the neutral position.

 

[James1979]

If its a twin pump system fit a twin pump. the danger you run buy joining the two supplies together is the risk of pulling two levers and the greater load from one block back feeding the other. Eg; lifting and slewing at the same time could possibly make the lift drop or speed up the slew as it drops or the other way around.

Bob

Think (from my mashed memory!!) that’s how the Timberwolf track chipper ones work for the same reason?

So you can’t track in / out and forward at the same time.

Pumps are linear driven axially off the end of the first one

 

[Onoff]

Give me the model. I may have the full workshop manual.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Are the motors knackered, could you fit a engine driven 36v genny and keep them?

 

[finyuk2005]

just back from a thanksgiving dinner!
thanks for all the replies so far!
dont know if it will work but i have uploaded a manual i have been using, its the earlier serial number one we have.

the original 36v motor for the drive and steering side of things had burnt out, i think because the pump had locked up, it didnt look good inside!
the boom pump was working, but we were getting sick of replacing batteries at around £200 a pop!
I had wondered about an electro hydraulic system with a dc generator, it seems thats kind of how the hybrid ones work from the factory

Maybe i should have specked a twin or tandem pump arrangement!

 

[finyuk2005]

If its a twin pump system fit a twin pump. the danger you run buy joining the two supplies together is the risk of pulling two levers and the greater load from one block back feeding the other. Eg; lifting and slewing at the same time could possibly make the lift drop or speed up the slew as it drops or the other way around.

Bob

not sure that would affect things as one manifold is just for dive wheels and steering and the other is for boom function, so the two manifolds wouldn't likely be in use at the same time?

Although that does help the case for that solenoid actuated 3 way spool valve as then the two manifolds are never in use at the same time, and it also solves the problem that merryman has said about the manifolds possibly not being designed to have flow from the pump all the time, as in the neutral position the flow would go directly back to tank

 

[8ob]

not sure that would affect things as one manifold is just for dive wheels and steering and the other is for boom function, so the two manifolds wouldn't likely be in use at the same time?

Got a Nifty I will be converting from battery to engine driven, there are occasions when that would/could track and elevate/slew at the same time, that will be going twin pump. I dont think there is a problem for own use but I dont think you would dare let an oppo use something that was less than right.

Bob

 

[finyuk2005]

Got a Nifty I will be converting from battery to engine driven, there are occasions when that would/could track and elevate/slew at the same time, that will be going twin pump. I dont think there is a problem for own use but I dont think you would dare let an oppo use something that was less than right.

Bob

View attachment 374334

nah its just for use about the farm basically!
what engine are you planning in that one for interest?

 

[8ob]

nah its just for use about the farm basically!
what engine are you planning in that one for interest?

I am using a 905 kubota engine/powerpack off a toro mower, its already got the multistage pumps etc attached. Bought three of them with knackered mower decks. All the engines/hydraulics are good.

 

[finyuk2005]

I am using a 905 kubota engine/powerpack off a toro mower, its already got the multistage pumps etc attached. Bought three of them with knackered mower decks. All the engines/hydraulics are good.

View attachment 374335

thats a great idea, plenty of good hydraulic bits on there i bet!

 

[Rannsachair]

I would go the same route as @8ob I suspect the boom pump will be less displacement than the drive/steering by a margin, so will be very slow using the auxiliary pump. Ideally you want a gear pump with the same flow rate/ pressure rating as the original on the electric motor at your diesel engine speed. Idealy you want a tandem pump unit to run both circuits in parallel.

 

[finyuk2005]

I would go the same route as @8ob I suspect the boom pump will be less displacement than the drive/steering by a margin, so will be very slow using the auxiliary pump. Ideally you want a gear pump with the same flow rate/ pressure rating as the original on the electric motor at your diesel engine speed. Idealy you want a tandem pump unit to run both circuits in parallel.

i think i do have the old pumps somewhere so i could measure them and get a price for a tandem pump setup

 

[zzr1200]

Got a Nifty I will be converting from battery to engine driven, there are occasions when that would/could track and elevate/slew at the same time, that will be going twin pump. I dont think there is a problem for own use but I dont think you would dare let an oppo use something that was less than right.

Bob

View attachment 374334

Ooo a **itty lift as they are known in the trade.

Ex-NW?

I'll have diagrams for that in PDF form....

 

[finyuk2005]

Oh boys and girls!
so i blanked off one side of the T fitting to send pressure to just the boom manifold,

And it works perfect, moves at just the right speed even with the engine barely off idle which is just what i wanted, so you can move the boom around without having to have the unbearable racket of an air cooled, single cylinder diesel at a million rpm!!

not tested the drive manifold yet, but if that needs more oomf i have a throttle solenoid set up to pull the throttle in, probably on a switch,

So i think i will go for that 3 way solenoid actuated spool block, it will mean its not possible to use the boom at the same time as driving but i dont think thats and issue, apart from the wiring,

Anyone know how i could wire an OR gate type of thing? So that it isnt possible to send power to both sides of the solenoid at the same time?

cheers!

 

[zzr1200]

it will mean its not possible to use the boom at the same time as driving but i dont think thats and issue, apart from the wiring,

Apart from its illegal under H&S/Builds approval spec, the system is designed so that you can't drive and operate boom function at the same time.

To do this you have to have by-passed interlocks that prevent this from happening.

There's certain chap here somewhere that might just/would be having a word with you if were to have an accident while at work.....

 

[finyuk2005]

Apart from its illegal under H&S/Builds approval spec, the system is designed so that you can't drive and operate boom function at the same time.

To do this you have to have by-passed interlocks that prevent this from happening.

There's certain chap here somewhere that might just/would be having a word with you if were to have an accident while at work.....

well i dont think i would want too anyway! and my system wont allow that anyway, i just need to figure out how to stop both solenoids being powered at the same time so not to damage them,

not sure how the original system worked as the drive and steering has never worked since we got it due to the dc motor being burned out,
there is a switch the boom hits when it is fully down, and i would guess that would need to be closed to activate the drive side of things.... so actually i have just realised while writing this that the problem of powering both solenoids shouldnt actualy exist anyway!! ha ha!

 

[finyuk2005]

Im sure i have used some lifts before that do allow driving when the boom is in the air but just slower, but cant remember if you could slew or drop the basket etc at the same time