Roof structure question???

[Screwdriver]

Wood moves a fair bit more than most people realise. Needs to be a slip fit into mortar!

Of course it moves a lot more accross the grain than along it but even so, rooves move and walls shouldn't.

Now that more details have emerged, I am firmly of the opinion that it should be left as-is. Wouldn't do any harm to give the whole structure of the roof a good looking over but chances are it's perfectly fine if that balancing beam is the only item of concern.

 

[dobbslc]

Must be no weight on that upright, otherwise it would just split down the middle,
beginning at the bottom of the V. Would be better to nail a piece of 6x2 up tight under
the purlin, make it long enough to reach over to the opposite purlin, then wedge and
bolt an up right directly under each purlin, no splits that way.

I can't go purlin to purlin as there's a room between them.
I'll do a drawing when I get a chance. As I said before it's a bog roof!

 

[brightspark]

the four 9x3 beams holding my roof up are just sat on the inner gable end wall bricked in . they have been there 135 years and going nowhere

 

[gaz1]

@eLuSiVeMiTe

im thinking of a scarf joint for the old beam it will keep it old looking as if its done like this before

its up to dobbslc

if he wants to cut all those nails out drop the beam to work on it then lift it and fit it back into the wall

if you want after this you can metal plate it or support it like in the above video

@dobbslc

what do you really want to do a bodge yet support that beam

ratchet that beam straight but risk it may drop as you straighten it

or just plain bodge it at other end and risk that it will outlast the both of you if you do sell it best to cover that area from view from the inspector who only sticks there head in and sas its ok without a proper investigation

 

[gaz1]

if your curious how strong scarf joints are

 

[addjunkie]

To keep inspectors happy now they go in the wall with a strong concrete support pad below. My drawings had dimensions for the support pad.

 

[brightspark]

To keep inspectors happy now they go in the wall with a strong concrete support pad below. My drawings had dimensions for the support pad.

they dont make roofs like they used to there pre fabricated so there is no need for pads on new roofs /. there only used on lintels and girders

 

[dobbslc]

if he wants to cut all those nails out drop the beam to work on it then lift it and fit it back into the wall

I'm never going to take it out that's for sure!

I have been fabbing up a bracket like @8ob said, it was going well until I started welding but it ain't going anywhere
Rearrange the following words, Badgers, rough, a, as, ****...
I'm going to just take the load of the purlin up with a jack or acrow and then bolt the bracket in place using some resin fixings.

 

[gaz1]

im sorry to say you wont load that beam with a jack or acrow as its already past its load point by the twist off side

you could load it if it was straight and then you could support it much better but in straightening it you risk it dropping

 

[dobbslc]

I found some pre atomic era angle iron down the end of the garden. About 4mm thick.

Cleaned it up a bit.
Then cut a plate out.


Mmm shiny!
Then "welded" the angle on.

I was probably at the limit of my 140A GYS mig and I haven't welded for ages
I'm quite disappointed with that to be honest

 

[maroon]

You might need to do more cutting. Unless you can sandwich that plate between the end of the beam and wall.

Looks ideal that though.

 

[dobbslc]

There's a gap that it will fit into. The timber has shrunk back over time I suppose.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Can't you just bolt a joist to the underside (vertically upwards) resin fixed to the wall to stop any further twist and lock it in position...then go and make a nice cuppa. I really wouldn't be jacking anything or cutting anything off what's there...why take the risk?

 

[maroon]

4 16mm rawls will hold that in. M10c or M12c

 

[Screwdriver]

the four 9x3 beams holding my roof up are just sat on the inner gable end wall bricked in . they have been there 135 years and going nowhere

Yes of course, like I said my understanding is it is standard practice to mortar in wooden beams, joists etc. If on the other hand you are going to tie them in solidly to the brickwork with metal fixings, plates etc, then some consideration must be made for the structural impact. If water gets onto a wooden beam it will move a fair bit. Mortar can allow it to slip.

I am happy to be put right, that's just what I have picked up over the years doing strictly amateur projects.

 

[gaz1]

Can't you just bolt a joist to the underside (vertically upwards) resin fixed to the wall to stop any further twist and lock it in position...then go and make a nice cuppa. I really wouldn't be jacking anything or cutting anything off what's there...why take the risk?

the way its stands now is classed as unsafe it was worse when he fitted the left side in doing that repair it did help considerably

earthquake damage would have been the more point of shift on that load whilst the north dosnt suffer them as bad the south does

however the north suffers heavy snow fall and this can bring roofs down and in the ops case hes been damn lucky that it didnt come down years ago

from what im seeing the upstairs has been an addon from day one and has been bodged since day one with the roof and flooring

ive dealt with planning since 83 so def pre 80s era for the changes

so back to whats best its down to @dobbslc to decide on the best coarse of action to take

if he tries to sell it and someone spots the bodges they will remove money off the price of sale thats guaranteed anyone that knows beams will know that beam is wrong angle to perform its job

if he bodges it and issues arise in later life he wont get to do the job age thing if he passes then its going to be someones elses issue

whats the best coarse of action well thats up to him

its take bricks out both sides and fit beams

47mm x 250mm C24 Treated Timber 4800mm (10'' x 2'')

All our packs of timber are supplied straight from the docks and will be delivered on a Hiab vehicle. If required we can also deliver full packs of various sheet materials on the same vehicle. Due to geographical restrictions, we can only offer this service to London. Structural Graded C24...

www.builderdepot.co.uk

first one nail to the rafters the second one bolted to it

fitting it is going to be a real git to do and unsafe as hell unless you just fit a temporary post on the right side do the work remove the post

as it stands now the only option is to fit the right side more as support aid

hes been very lucky that that beam hasnt droped while work was being carried out it could have dropped if anything those rafters nails are the only things that are holding that beam up and its weight and its going to be heavy so if it does fail its going to be serious damage

 

[Morrisman]

the way its stands now is classed as unsafe it was worse when he fitted the left side in doing that repair it did help considerably

earthquake damage would have been the more point of shift on that load whilst the north dosnt suffer them as bad the south does

however the north suffers heavy snow fall and this can bring roofs down and in the ops case hes been damn lucky that it didnt come down years ago

from what im seeing the upstairs has been an addon from day one and has been bodged since day one with the roof and flooring

ive dealt with planning since 83 so def pre 80s era for the changes

so back to whats best its down to @dobbslc to decide on the best coarse of action to take

if he tries to sell it and someone spots the bodges they will remove money off the price of sale thats guaranteed anyone that knows beams will know that beam is wrong angle to perform its job

if he bodges it and issues arise in later life he wont get to do the job age thing if he passes then its going to be someones elses issue

whats the best coarse of action well thats up to him

its take bricks out both sides and fit beams

47mm x 250mm C24 Treated Timber 4800mm (10'' x 2'')

All our packs of timber are supplied straight from the docks and will be delivered on a Hiab vehicle. If required we can also deliver full packs of various sheet materials on the same vehicle. Due to geographical restrictions, we can only offer this service to London. Structural Graded C24...

www.builderdepot.co.uk

first one nail to the rafters the second one bolted to it

fitting it is going to be a real git to do and unsafe as hell unless you just fit a temporary post on the right side do the work remove the post

as it stands now the only option is to fit the right side more as support aid

hes been very lucky that that beam hasnt droped while work was being carried out it could have dropped if anything those rafters nails are the only things that are holding that beam up and its weight and its going to be heavy so if it does fail its going to be serious damage

Probably best to torch it right now, claim on the insurance........ as it's obviously about to collapse......

 

[dobbslc]

@gaz1 it's not an add on from the 80's! It was built like this, I have the original plans from the 1950's
The angle of the beam is a common way to fit a purlin ie 90° to the rafters. Most Google searches ive done seem to be like this. Admittedly the fixing on the end isn't great but it's stayed up for 75 years!
I'm not sure about all these "bodges" you keep on about! it's a reasonably sound roof that just needs some maintenance.

its take bricks out both sides and fit beams

That's just not going to happen! I might as well take the whole roof off and start again and as my boys bedrooms are "in the roof" I don't think they'll like camping in the garden all winter


Earthquake damage? Fek me I'm in Hertfordshire not Honolulu

 

[dobbslc]

Can't you just bolt a joist to the underside (vertically upwards) resin fixed to the wall to stop any further twist and lock it in position...then go and make a nice cuppa. I really wouldn't be jacking anything or cutting anything off what's there...why take the risk?

When I say jack it up I mean I'll just take the weight of the beam so the bracket is actually taking a small load rather than just sitting under it doing nothing. I'll not be cutting anything either!

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I should have been clearer sorry, my roof is the same/similar design as yours...except my purlin sits on half a brick sticking out the wall...I'm guessing they knew what they were doing as it's survived 90 years so far! Bottom of the pic is the cross brace which runs across the front of the chimney and then down to a central wall...so on mine there's no/little load on the ends I reckon as most of the load gets transferred by the brace...the end brick was probably added to make fitting the purlin easier during original construction?