First Launch - NASA's big new rocket at 1.30pm today ?

[Mark 2]

Bottom like however is that if we are to survive as a species we need to get off this rock because it cannot sustain our current population let alone next century

Never a truer word spoken, Sir.

 

[Screwdriver]

This is not a science mission, it is a political statement. Just the delays in this project have cost more than the entire JWST.

It is already years overdue.

What a waste.

I agree we should be exploring our solar system but the Earth is nowhere near overpopulation. It is being mismanaged and precious irreplaceable resources wasted but if you look at the science, this planet is easily capable of maintaining a much larger population. Easily.

Chances are though we have already permanently damaged our environment, possibly in ways we haven’t even discovered yet. We rely on a food chain that starts in our vast oceans and a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link. It would be difficult to persuade me that anywhere in our entire solar system could be a cost effective, self sustaining habitat. Exploration, yes. Scientific endeavour and possibly even mining for resources, yes, but vanity projects like this tourist trip to the moon are a complete waste of precious resources.

Even if we could colonise another planet or satellite of one of the big gas giants, it would be much, much easier to build a city in the middle of the Sahara, on the ocean floor or even inside a hollowed out volcano down here on Earth.

Faster than light travel is impossible. Colonising any Earth like exoplanets we might find even “nearby” in our spiral arm of this galaxy would take hundreds if not thousands of years. We are stuck here and really ought to be looking after this planet as carefully as we possibly can.

 

[Ross365]

This is not a science mission, it is a political statement. Just the delays in this project have cost more than the entire JWST.

It is already years overdue.

One of the problems that NASA has, and it's unique to NASA, is that every so often they get a new boss (the US President) who comes in and wants them to do something different to what's already being done. That's one reason why this activity is years behind schedule. Another possible problem is their relationship to the US Air Force. I don't know whether the Air Force has had any say in this project, but they were deeply involved in the Shuttle development. What NASA wanted, and what the Air Force want were very different. The compromise design that resulted was problematic.

Elon Musk must have gone out and hired some of the very best engineers in the industry for SpaceX in order to achieve the progress and the success they have attained. "Amazon man" (cannot recall his name) must have taken more. I wonder if NASA and their subcontractors are now depleted of the brightest and the best of the engineers?

 

[mike os]

I wonder if NASA and their subcontractors are now depleted of the brightest and the best of the engineers?

do you even need to ask???

Better pay, better pensions, actually allowed to make and do stuff, relatively simple management structure run by people paid for results rather than seniority?...... projects that will only end when they are either completed, shown to be unviable or a better solution comes along rather than a new political plank gets elected or a political hack winds up the masses?

About the only thing NASA really has going for it is prestige, and thats severely eroded these days. Now it pretty much just assembles stuff made for it or made for other people that want to use them rather than the french or russians to chuck things up high..... and the south african and the amazon are going to take that away from them if it wasnt for the american govermnent protecting nasa and limiting flights, licences etc.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

SpaceX employs a sort of agile approach...they'd rather build 100 cheap prototypes with each evolving the design and making incremental gains.

NASA is more linear approach...all culminating on the launch pad in one large make or break moment!

I seem to remember NASA did an internal quote for the falcon 9 development...I think they'd still be building it .

 

[Ross365]

According to space.com https://www.space.com/artemis-1-moon-rocket-leak-weeks-repairs (which is usually reliable) , "The leak occurred after a brief "inadvertent" overpressurization of the fuel line that was three times the acceptable pressure, said Mike Sarafin, NASA's Artemis 1 mission manager". Probably over the proof pressure?

 

[mike os]

That would do it … cryogenic fuels are a bitch

 

[Kram]

It's too early to tell if the leak was caused by the overpressurization event (which was triggered by an errant manual command from the Launch Control Center) or not, Sarafin said.

Russian hackers?

 

[Screwdriver]

Not to mention a 100 metre tall fuel tank eight feet in diameter. That’s a heavy lift…

 

[Farside]

Incredibly, the seals weren't tested at the crazy low temperatures they need to operate under prior to this launch!

That's nuts. I believe I got that info from no less than Scott Manley himself...

That sounds hauntingly familiar.
One question that only got a mumbly-mumbly answer was, "Why wasn't all this tested thoroughly before launch?"
It's like Ducati or Norton product testing - the customers did that.

 

[Ross365]

They were using liquid hydrogen with confidence back in the days of Saturn V. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if many/most of the materials used on Saturn V (and even the Shuttle) are now out of production, replaced by more modern materials with one advantage or another. Hard to believe they would have used a sealing material for liquid hydrogen without testing it. It will be interesting to see what gets reported in some very reliable source like "Aviation Week" rather than Twitter.

 

[Ross365]

Seems like NASA is not the only one having trouble with their rockets; Mr Amazon too; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62882272.
Isn't that the "man-rated" capsule that Bill Shatner (and others) have flown in ?

 

[Screwdriver]

I should have posted this here:

It's even more of a pointless joyride than Artemis. It goes up, it comes down. Technically it reaches "space" but that's actually not as far away as people think...

 

[Screwdriver]

I like how it is described as a "soft landing" and "you can see the retro rockets firing".

Well, I didn't see any retro rocket action and it looked like a spine bending landing to me.

In the video you can sense the panic as this multi billion pound advertisement experiences an "off nominal situation". I could feel the sense of relief when the main chutes finally opened. They cut the on screen info so we can only guess the speed at which this thing hit the ground. My guess would be circa 60mph (at least). One would hope there are shock absorbing chairs in this thing for the geriatric multimillionaire fee paying "astronauts". Even so, no one is walking away from a landing like that...

 

[Ross365]

Agreed; pretty sure no retros fired there - if they did fail, there'll be no way of keeping that quiet!

 

[fizzy]

I just wish someone put enough enough money into Reaction Engines and Skylon. Although Reaction Engines seem to be getting a lot of military funding at last. Be nice to see a British reusable spaceplane in action. Mind you HOTOL was proposed many years ago.

 

[Morrisman]

NASA is unfortunately forced to accept the lowest bids to make its kit …

Hydrogen fuel issues will hopefully focus some attention on the real risks using it as a fuel … ie it is not just a hydrocarbon gas substitute.

And for the record there is absolutely nothing green about anything to do with rocketry… other than olive drab so beloved by their main users.

Bottom like however is that if we are to survive as a species we need to get off this rock because it cannot sustain our current population let alone next century

This rock doesn't care about us, it'll still be here quite happy in another 5 billion years.

'We', as in the trillionaires who basically own the planet, need to sort ourselves out, instead of using money making excuses to build rockets to go on a jolly to another planet.

Theres plenty enough for everybody here on earth, if we could just get rid of greed.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will be a better place. (Jimmy Hendrix. Supposedly)

 

[Ross365]

I just wish someone put enough enough money into Reaction Engines and Skylon. Although Reaction Engines seem to be getting a lot of military funding at last. Be nice to see a British reusable spaceplane in action. Mind you HOTOL was proposed many years ago.

I think it may be the case that a good chunk of the military money going in to Reaction Engines is American; these people for example https://www.darpa.mil/

 

[minimutly]

This rock doesn't care about us, it'll still be here quite happy in another 5 billion years.

'We', as in the trillionaires who basically own the planet, need to sort ourselves out, instead of using money making excuses to build rockets to go on a jolly to another planet.

Theres plenty enough for everybody here on earth, if we could just get rid of greed.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will be a better place. (Jimmy Hendrix. Supposedly)

Damn I thought for a moment that was your quote....
It's a hell of a thought though isn't it? Whether we're here or not, the planet eco system will have changed and changed again, maybe several times. And yes, tha "damage" we're doing now is mostly returning the carbon that has allways been here, except for Australia, that will be a big lake with land around the outside.

 

[Screwdriver]

This rock doesn't care about us, it'll still be here quite happy in another 5 billion years.

...happy, cozy and warm all wrapped up inside the red giant our sun will have become.