Running workshop costs !!!!!

[northwest]

running a company trying to stay in buisness

And that's it really, trying to stay afloat. In a previous re-incarnation I was literally starving and people were forever taking a lend. I learned a great deal from it though and I can spot a chancer at a thousand yards now, I try to avoid them. It has been mentioned but the business you want is repeat business, it requires no effort to get and can be rewarding. It is hard though some days especially when the person in front of you is an idiot and hasn't listened to a word you have said, I just charge accordingly.

 

[Cato]

If it makes sense that fine, but it's when I question sundry it goes like this
Me: "what are sundry items please"
Garage: "you know, sundry items"
Me: "if I knew what they were I wouldn't be asking"
Garage: "sundry items"
I give up

It's primarily for that reason I don't bother itemising or listing consumables. I have a (roughly) calculated figure for the year which I put in as an overhead.

Every business has them, but it seems only some engineering/automotive/machinery companies note them as a line item on invoices. Steel stock holders, supermarkets, DIY sheds, builder's merchants etc don't. No one complains to Sainsbury's that they can't see the costs involved in cleaning up isle 4.

 

[James1979]

the person in front of you is an idiot and hasn't listened to a word you have said, I just charge accordingly.

I had this last week. The third time I have been to look at a problem. The third time we have gone over the same ground.

But he has watched increasing amounts of gaztube between visits and is more and more convinced I am wrong. I add the time on to the invoice. Eventually he will find a video that agrees with me and all will be good.

In the meantime I try not to feel I am wasting my time as I am being paid for it but it is frustrating.

 

[Alan Reynolds]

crist dont gte me going, i put trse on a face book page to see interest.

One halfwit asked, can you make them so i can gte the jerry can out to fill it. FFS

I said in the post. They are jerry can and LPG cylinder carriers/holders to bolt to a transom that are lockable.

at times i am glad i jacked in the Boat Works as folk are soooooo dim at times.

I charge for every nut, bolt and washer. I have to order them, sort them, store them and fit them. Add that all together and it costs money. I went to a track once and needed an 8mm 50mm long cap head bolt. I went to the only van selling spares that day and he placed it on the counter and announced “That’ll be a fiver.” When I asked why it was so much he said no one else is selling here today. I didn’t buy it, I found one in my box of junk that might come in handy one day. But it showed me just how valuable some stuff can be. Regarding intelligence these days, the Dunning Kruger effect is rife in all walks of life now. The basis of their knowledge is gleaned from Facebook and social media and they believe everything they read.

crist dont gte me going, i put trse on a face book page to see interest.

One halfwit asked, can you make them so i can gte the jerry can out to fill it. FFS

I said in the post. They are jerry can and LPG cylinder carriers/holders to bolt to a transom that are lockable.

at times i am glad i jacked in the Boat Works as folk are soooooo dim at times.

crist dont gte me going, i put trse on a face book page to see interest.

One halfwit asked, can you make them so i can gte the jerry can out to fill it. FFS

I said in the post. They are jerry can and LPG cylinder carriers/holders to bolt to a transom that are lockable.

at times i am glad i jacked in the Boat Works as folk are soooooo dim at times.

 

[highseas]

I run a small fabrication workshop, and the speed that costs can add up on a job is eye watering and the cost of setting up to do something else takes real finding!
When I say I start at £35 a hour and sometimes a Lot More it’s sounds like a lot but break it down rent, electric,consumables wages and profit to keep going it barely makes it all work out and their is a very good reason a lot of big engines firms have bust

 

[grim_d]

Some of the jobs I do I know I have a captive audience, there is no-one else, I still try not to take the P

After reading a few of the comments above I have had a good hard look at some of the tins cans and aerosols on the shelf. The cost soon adds up over two hundred quid's worth of "liquid engineering" and you know what, with very few exceptions I use them all!

I've over £1000 in sanding discs and pads alone In my workshop right now, and that's just for the DA, not the grinder.

 

[Morrisman]

I am definitely having a solar array on the roof of the new place and it will power aircon in summer and heat in winter so win-win. I will of course do it to death before I decide and only when I am sure will I make the decision.

Be interesting to see comparison between paying someone for re-covering my workshop roof, and how much it would cost to lay solar panels over the full area. It's about 4m x 5 and almost flat, but really pointing the opposite direction to be ideal for solar.

 

[Morrisman]

I will let the machines heat the place, it is small and very well insulated.

I've got 4" of insulation in the walls, roof and door, and a double glazed window. Mid winter last year I had a small fan heater running for about 20 minutes at most, then it's warm enough, and body heat keeps it there for as long as I'm out there.

 

[Cato]

You have to include a lot of stuff in your rate which isn't always obvious. For example, lifting strops have only so many lifts before they become risky. Or that 'special' lever/drift that you made for a job years ago; it wasn't free and how many people have one? Then there are things like reference materials in print or electronic and the time taken to look them up.

The list of 'stuff' you need to do your work is long, and the time and expense involved in the training and experience to allow you to do that work is considerable. Selling your time too cheaply is not only poor business practice but (IMHO) is disrespectful to you, your trade/profession and all those who contributed to that training and experience.

One other thing worth mentioning. A mate of mine is using a solicitor for a property dispute. He told me the other day that if he sends her an email she charges £8:50 + VAT to read it. Not do anything about it or answer it mind, just read it. Just imagine your customer's reaction if you were to charge each time you read an email or answered the phone.

 

[Climber]

The truth is, if you can't comfortably cover all of these kind of expenses, your small business is actually just a hobby. That's fine for those of us who just enjoy making stuff, but not great if you need the income.
If you can't easily stick 20 or 30 quid on each bill, you are working for the wrong market.

 

[Climber]

One other thing worth mentioning. A mate of mine is using a solicitor for a property dispute. He told me the other day that if he sends her an email she charges £8:50 + VAT to read it. Not do anything about it or answer it mind, just read it. Just imagine your customer's reaction if you were to charge each time you read an email or answered the phone.

A solicitor is trying to make a living. Reading an email takes time; time is billable.

The only time I lift a finger before I've been paid is to generate an invoice. I don't answer the phone to anyone unless they have already paid me for the time.

 

[Cato]

A solicitor is trying to make a living. Reading an email takes time; time is billable.

The only time I lift a finger before I've been paid is to generate an invoice. I don't answer the phone to anyone unless they have already paid me for the time.

Exactly my point. She isn't reading emails for her benefit or as a hobby, it's for clients so it's chargeable time.

In the same way as I don't go to a supplier or load gear into the van for fun, it's for a customer therefore it's chargeable.

 

[h-dom]

I'm fortunate in that starting a small business in a rural area there aren't many people doing the same thing, and therefore what I charge is what I charge and no one argues it. I am not expensive as I have my workshop at home and just charge an hourly rate plus materials which covers my costs and pays me the income that I need. If I need to increase it, which I will do this autumn no doubt, then I don't think my customers will argue. I very rarely don't get a job on price and it pays me what I need.

I spend the time pricing jobs properly, including consumables etc and tend to charge materials plus 10% to cover nuts and bolts etc.
Fuel is the killer increase now for a lot of people, although going out to price a job and then going back to fit in the area I cover only adds around £50 to the cost. If fuel comes down, it will only save £10-15 so not much difference.

As propane increases in cost the forge costs more to run but again, it's gone from £60 a bottle to £80, but that runs the forge all day for a week, so barely any increase over each job.

The problem I think is if you are in a competitive industry you don't necessarily have the leeway to add on your additional expenses when guy up the road is cutting corners to keep his prices down.

 

[northwest]

when guy up the road is cutting corners to keep his prices down

And that my friends is the nub of it.

 

[Climber]

I'm fortunate in that starting a small business in a rural area there aren't many people doing the same thing, and therefore what I charge is what I charge and no one argues it. I am not expensive as I have my workshop at home and just charge an hourly rate plus materials which covers my costs and pays me the income that I need. If I need to increase it, which I will do this autumn no doubt, then I don't think my customers will argue. I very rarely don't get a job on price and it pays me what I need.

I spend the time pricing jobs properly, including consumables etc and tend to charge materials plus 10% to cover nuts and bolts etc.
Fuel is the killer increase now for a lot of people, although going out to price a job and then going back to fit in the area I cover only adds around £50 to the cost. If fuel comes down, it will only save £10-15 so not much difference.

As propane increases in cost the forge costs more to run but again, it's gone from £60 a bottle to £80, but that runs the forge all day for a week, so barely any increase over each job.

The problem I think is if you are in a competitive industry you don't necessarily have the leeway to add on your additional expenses when guy up the road is cutting corners to keep his prices down.

I would argue that you shouldn't be competing with someone who is cutting corners. In fact, the best way to differentiate yourself from such a person is just to charge 2 or 3 times what they do.

 

[h-dom]

I would argue that you shouldn't be competing with someone who is cutting corners. In fact, the best way to differentiate yourself from such a person is just to charge 2 or 3 times what they do.

Absolutely, and as you say a big part of the job is differentiating between lower and higher end. No matter what situation the country is in there will always be people who are willing and able to pay top prices for top work.

It's the lower end where people go and can't afford it where the problem is bigger in my opinion. And don't get me wrong, there is a place in any industry for lower end quality, it is a necessity, but I think those types of business are those that will struggle the most.

In the last two months I haven't had a single customer either go elsewhere, argue the price or decline the job. And they are all in the £1k+ range, not a couple hundred or less, apart from one gate for around £850.

Who knows, maybe I'll see a change as the year goes on and things get harder for people.

 

[Climber]

Absolutely, and as you say a big part of the job is differentiating between lower and higher end. No matter what situation the country is in there will always be people who are willing and able to pay top prices for top work.

It's the lower end where people go and can't afford it where the problem is bigger in my opinion. And don't get me wrong, there is a place in any industry for lower end quality, it is a necessity, but I think those types of business are those that will struggle the most.

In the last two months I haven't had a single customer either go elsewhere, argue the price or decline the job. And they are all in the £1k+ range, not a couple hundred or less, apart from one gate for around £850.

Who knows, maybe I'll see a change as the year goes on and things get harder for people.

It's certainly going to be tough for those who basically market what they sell as a commodity item; I suppose though, it always has been, and actually, it should be.

Nobody is going to value the time of anyone who doesn't value it themself.

 

[grim_d]

I will let the machines heat the place, it is small and very well insulated.

I have a small workshop inside the workshop, stud walls, plasterboard and Insulated...it's always way colder than the main workshop in winter

 

[8ob]

I have a small workshop inside the workshop, stud walls, plasterboard and Insulated...it's always way colder than the main workshop in winter

My farm 2000 will be in place by the time the bad weather arrives, wont cost anything to run

 

[grim_d]

My farm 2000 will be in place by the time the bad weather arrives, wont cost anything to run

View attachment 358989

That's super helpful for the rest of us.