Free energy water pumps

[8ob]

Its a load of testicles, once that tap opens air will be admitted into the chamber and the water in the riser will fall/air lock. It wont syphon the chamber empty because it cant, this will then empty via the tap long enough to make a youtube vid and mug those watching it. Still who cares, someone gets paid out when these stupid vids hit big numbers of viewers.

Bob

 

[Screwdriver]

That same one bar atmosphere is pressing against the outlet of your vacuum chamber, so nothing will flow.

In an idealised experiment that is quite possible (as @aesmith also alludes to) depending on the precise surface area of the exposed tap outlet. It's a bit like the old inverted cup trick where you completely fill a cup of water, place a card over the top and invert it. Air pressure can resist a vacuum from forming so long as the physical properties and dimension of the equipment can allow it.

You'd need a pretty small outlet so that a bubble could hang on to the underneath of the spout. Unlikely I suggest in reality though.

 

[stuvy]

I’m looking forward to @Baloo doing this he’s a determined chap

 

[GavJ]

if your inclined to do the maths, google NPSH net pressure suction height, we ues this to prove pump suction pipes are sized correctly..

 

[Baloo]

So this does raise some non-intuitive issues which is why I suggest the scam video is so "clever". It does rely on a certain degree of knowledge in physics to spot the trick.

Just looking at the diagram for example there are two assumption being made you have not fully explored. Firstly lets say you've dipped your hose into an ocean of water, so vast we need not worry about its surface area. The implication in your diagram (the "intuitive" part) is that 14.6 lbs is pushing down on a very large area and therefore pushing water up the pipe. There may be some semantic wiggle room there but in fact what you are saying (and tbf actually do say) is that you are lifting a head of water from that ocean against gravity not air! (interestingly). If you filled the pipe with sand from the desert, you could do the same thought experiment in a vacuum.

not sure i see what you mean about the sand in a desert but the ocean with a pipe in might work if there was a vacuum at the top of the pipe ?

It is the weight of the water in the feed pipe you are lifting, nothing to do with air pressure except at a certain point (about 33 feet) there is so much weight pulling on the column of water, it rips the water apart, boiling it forming a water vapour above the sealed pipe. The only thing the stopping the water just falling out of the pipe is the atmospheric pressure within which the entire system is encapsulated. Go any higher and you just get more water vapour above the 33 odd feet we're allowed under earths "normal" temp/pressure.

Secondly you have not considered exactly what happens with your system when the tap turns on. Your outlet is now also exposed to 1 bar of pressure which you might think of (in these unusual circumstances) as if there is a gigantic "bubble" "under water". so when you open the tap, air will be desperate to get up that outlet while yes, the pressure imbalance will also draw some water up the feed.

What I suggest will happen is that bubbles will start filling your low pressure region forming above the reservoir by working their way up the outlet as water tries to flow out. That phenomena gives you the typical glug glug you get when trying to empty an unvented petrol can for example where you would deliberately angle the container to stop it from forming an hydraulic lock at the spout.

if you look at all the videos on youtube they must have encountered the air creeping up the outlet problem as they counter it in 2 ways first is to have a 3" pipe to the outlet then drop to a 2" so there is always a back log of water waiting to get out preventing air creeping in and then secondly they have a tall dead ended pipe someway along the outlet run which catches any air bubbles that do manage to get in

So what is the long term, equilibrium? Well while some water is being drawn up the feed pipe, increasing amounts of air will build up in the reservoir, spoiling the "vacuum" (lit. low pressure region). As the reservoir inevitably empties, more and more air goes up the outlet, less and less water can be drawn from the feed until with a massive burp, the last dregs of water flow out of the reservoir which has now dropped to atmospheric pressure and the column of water in the feed pipe collapses.

but you are right it cant work or we would be awash with free energy pumps with a turbine in the outlet generating free electric, when i last looked on amazon they weren't available .............

 

[Baloo]

Dammit. Well said. That does explain the situation quite nicely.

Not enough words for my tastes though.

but dose that not have gravity at the outlet pulling the water out preventing water ingress and cancelling it out

 

[Baloo]

I’m looking forward to @Baloo doing this he’s a determined chap

but i cant make the impossible work, common sense says it wont work but there are hundreds and hundred of video's of it working on youtube whos paying them to make them

 

[Maker]

whos paying them

Youtube is. They're getting Adsense revenue and sponsored by companies if they're popular enough.

The controversy of it working or not working generates views, if it did/didn't work you'd just watch it and move on, the fact that you doubt it means you've posted it here and they got 20 more views.

 

[Baloo]

Youtube is. They're getting Adsense revenue and sponsored by companies if they're popular enough.

The controversy of it working or not working generates views, if it did/didn't work you'd just watch it and move on, the fact that you doubt it means you've posted it here and they got 20 more views.

better make my own vid of the test and get paid as well then lol

 

[Screwdriver]

not sure i see what you mean about the sand in a desert but the ocean with a pipe in might work if there was a vacuum at the top of the pipe ?


if you look at all the videos on youtube they must have encountered the air creeping up the outlet problem as they counter it in 2 ways first is to have a 3" pipe to the outlet then drop to a 2" so there is always a back log of water waiting to get out preventing air creeping in and then secondly they have a tall dead ended pipe someway along the outlet run which catches any air bubbles that do manage to get in


but you are right it cant work or we would be awash with free energy pumps with a turbine in the outlet generating free electric, when i last looked on amazon they weren't available .............

I use sand to highlight the notion that air pressure is irrelevant to the physical dynamics regards the "free" energy which is entirely potential energy from gravity, nothing to do with air pressures and vacuums. Also "vacuum" is ok in the vernacular but brings other issues into the science like vapour pressure and boiling etc. which would overcomplicate a technical discussion if you wanted to be accurate in the description . The "head" of water here on planet earth is determined by the physical properties of water at STP and a column of sand would also eventually "fail" to support itself inside a pipe in a similar manner depending on its own physical properties and it would also do that in the complete absence of air.

Yeah I guess they would try some trick or other to fool the casual observer but it makes no odds; either the outlet is exposed to air or it is not. No amount of twisting and turning will make any difference.

You can suck and blow all you like, the shape makes no difference. Having a standpipe just delays the inevitable, eventually all the water above the well will drain out except for any water traps and puddles, all the pipework above the well will sit at 1 atm.

First law of thermodynamics: no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Screwdriver]

better make my own vid of the test and get paid as well then lol

I'm not kidding about the ASMR, seriously if you do it, get some decent audio. That's all you're going to get except wet feet (and a few hundred views).

 

[Baloo]

oh well back to a solar pump then

 

[Screwdriver]

but dose that not have gravity at the outlet pulling the water out preventing water ingress and cancelling it out

Err, you're not going to hang onto a bubble with gravity....

Quite the opposite!

 

[finyuk2005]

oh well back to a solar pump then

If you need to shift water without using electricity then have a look at Ram pumps, e have one one the farm thats been running for years, just clacks away 24/7 , fed from a spring, keeps the reservoir topped up

 

[Pete.]

The energy for drawing the well comes from the reducing head of water in the barrel, and it has gained that energy before any of this started by the guy's arm on the well pump, so the level in the barrel is constantly dropping. As the level drops in the barrel the vacuum will increase until the weight of water in the barrel is insufficient to push water out of the outlet, then it will draw air and the syphon is lost. The well pipe will drain down and the barrel will empty itself in between gulps of air through the outlet.

The clever bit is at the end where they show the hose being connected as if they are going to 'use' it. They have used the hose to replenish the barrel and back-fill the draw-pipe from the well by forcing the air down it. That's why you saw the big gush of water when they released the hose and immediately it shows flow from the draw-pipe with very little head lost. They primed the system and added a bit of positive pressure from the tap to boot. We do this all the time at work in fact we have a clever piece of kit that relies on the principle.

It's all a big con to gain views and revenue.

 

[Pete.]

If you need to shift water without using electricity then have a look at Ram pumps, e have one one the farm thats been running for years, just clacks away 24/7 , fed from a spring, keeps the reservoir topped up

Now that really IS an ingenious system I saw those ages ago. Just uses the flow from the spring.

 

[Baloo]

Now that really IS an ingenious system I saw those ages ago. Just uses the flow from the spring.

alas i dont have running water to work a ram pump, unless it will pump for about 800m across a flat field, or maybe straight up 5m to a water tower then let gravity do its thing and push it across the filed to my pond, worth an investigate

 

[Fred Trevvett]

Bottom line is law of the conservation of energy. You cannot have a substance (water) in a higher energy state (higher up than it used to be, i.e. higher gravitational potential energy) than before the event, without some energy having been supplied from somewhere (e.g. hidden pump, somebody filling one of the vessels from above)

Anyone who disagrees is turning the last few hundred years of physics research on its head and had better have a good explanation

 

[finyuk2005]

alas i dont have running water to work a ram pump, unless it will pump for about 800m across a flat field, or maybe straight up 5m to a water tower then let gravity do its thing and push it across the filed to my pond, worth an investigate

It would surprise you how far/high they will pump!, we used a few of those concrete ring things to make a tank that the spring feeds, from there its about 10 meters of 2 inch galv pipe down to the ram pump, then 3 or 400 meters of 25mm mdpe up to the reservoir,
I cant remember the actual ratio but for an example, 10 liters of water fly down the pipe, and that energy then gets used to push say 1 liter of water up the outlet pipe, so you might only get a steady trickle up at the reservoir, but running 24/7 it soon adds up!

 

[voipio]

The whole principle of siphoning is that the outlet is lower than the inlet, regardless of what happens in between. If the inlet is lower it can't work surely??

Absolutely. If the outlet is made lower than the inlet water level i.e. the water level in the well, then it will work, but it just becomes a siphon with a, more or less, useless reservoir in the middle.