Wood router questions..

[hotponyshoes]

Couple of questions for those familiar with routers (the wood type not computer!)

Is the guide edge on a fence supposed to be dead straight?

I had a cheap router with a pressed steel fence and that was all over the place although that's about what I would expect for the price of the tool..
Anyway, I purchased I used router which was originally a better quality machine and the fence for that also had a slight bow.
I then purchased another (again previously used) fence only and that one is slightly bowed as well.

In the photo I have adjusted the screws to exaggerate the bow, it's only about 0.25mm but as it is present on both decent fences I'm wondering if it's supposed to be there?
Or if they have both previously been abused although I can't see how you could twist one without cracking it?

Only asking as I need to make up some new cheeks and I don't know if I should make them flat or not?


Also, a slightly more specific question,
I have a bosch FSN OFA adaptor plate (used to mount a router to the track saw type rails)
Supposedly it's compatible with a bosch GOF router.
My specific GOF900ACE should use set of holes 'A' but, for a start the router does not have any spare threaded holes in the base plate. I though maybe the 3 screws holding the plastic plate on might need to cone out but none of them line up with anything either?
Am I missing something obvious here?
Or, is the adaptor only suitable for the current, chinese built GOF models and not my older, smoother, usa made GOF?

I have got some decent sheets of nylon that I could make an adaptor up from but then I'm going to loose 20mm of plunge depth capability I think...

 

[AKN]

Couple of questions for those familiar with routers (the wood type not computer!)

Is the guide edge on a fence supposed to be dead straight?

I had a cheap router with a pressed steel fence and that was all over the place although that's about what I would expect for the price of the tool..
Anyway, I purchased I used router which was originally a better quality machine and the fence for that also had a slight bow.
I then purchased another (again previously used) fence only and that one is slightly bowed as well.

In the photo I have adjusted the screws to exaggerate the bow, it's only about 0.25mm but as it is present on both decent fences I'm wondering if it's supposed to be there?
Or if they have both previously been abused although I can't see how you could twist one without cracking it?

Only asking as I need to make up some new cheeks and I don't know if I should make them flat or not?
View attachment 344063

Also, a slightly more specific question,
I have a bosch FSN OFA adaptor plate (used to mount a router to the track saw type rails)
Supposedly it's compatible with a bosch GOF router.
My specific GOF900ACE should use set of holes 'A' but, for a start the router does not have any spare threaded holes in the base plate. I though maybe the 3 screws holding the plastic plate on might need to cone out but none of them line up with anything either?
Am I missing something obvious here?
Or, is the adaptor only suitable for the current, chinese built GOF models and not my older, smoother, usa made GOF?

I have got some decent sheets of nylon that I could make an adaptor up from but then I'm going to loose 20mm of plunge depth capability I think...
View attachment 344064

Try talking to the guys at Trend in Watford I’ve found them very helpful.

 

[roblane65]

Yes the fences are supposed to be straight but 0.25mm over the length of the fence shouldn't make any difference in general wood butchery imho . As for your guide plate my only suggestion would be to use a guide bush and pin to align the plate and the re drill your own holes .

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Ideally straight but it's not gonna hurt too much of its out slightly.

If you own a tracksaw you can buy mounts to use them as a guide with routers.


Edit. Just seen the rest of post after pics. :/

 

[grim_d]

I wouldn't worry too much about the fence, ideally it would be straight but wood is far more persuadable and dimensionally unstable than will make a difference with that.

Regards your attaching issue, trend make a sub base for about £20 that will almost certainly solve your issue. I have one on my Makita router so I can use the far more easily obtained trend guide bushes.

 

[roblane65]

Trend uni base I've a brand new one I put in the for sale section , no one wanted it !........

 

[Agroshield]

Is the edge of the fence machined or just the raw die casting?

If you are coming to woodworking from metalworking, you will be disappointed with almost everything. You either have to accept it or use your metalworking skills to fix the problems.

If the adaptor plate is for a track, I am not sure that the router needs to be concentric with the hole in the centre. So pick one not-too-bad hole, nut and bolt the black plate through that hole and drill two more. Mark with a sharpie so it is quick to attach next time.

As you say, the trouble with sub-bases is the loss of cut depth. You also have to consider how you fix the adaptor plate to the sub base: the sub base would need female threads in it.

A snazzy solution would be to drill and lightly counterbore the black base you have to match the track adaptor plate and use three female-threaded top hat bushes to attach the two. The brim of the hat would stop the bush pulling through.

The Trend Unibase will not help you one iota. It is meant a to replace the black base you have, not as an intermediate plate between two incompatible items.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I need to thin down the edges of some door sized bits of wood that need to fit into aluminium channel frames.
And I'm hoping to do it tomorrow so I'm looking for a solution I can knock up tonight

I'm thinking a couple of nylon blocks fitted up to this fence as it is will be the quickest solution and I'll counterbore the screws so I can flat off the faces if I ever feel the need.
For now I reckon I can do it by clamping a second piece of wood next to the first so I don't get a step when I run off the ends...

Is the edge of the fence machined or just the raw die casting?

If you are coming to woodworking from metalworking, you will be disappointed with almost everything. You either have to accept it or use your metalworking skills to fix the problems.

If the adaptor plate is for a track, I am not sure that the router needs to be concentric with the hole in the centre. So pick one not-too-bad hole, nut and bolt the black plate through that hole and drill two more. Mark with a sharpie so it is quick to attach next time.

As you say, the trouble with sub-bases is the loss of cut depth. You also have to consider how you fix the adaptor plate to the sub base: the sub base would need female threads in it.

A snazzy solution would be to drill and lightly counterbore the black base you have to match the track adaptor plate and use three female-threaded top hat bushes to attach the two. The brim of the hat would stop the bush pulling through.

The Trend Unibase will not help you one iota. It is meant a to replace the black base you have, not as an intermediate plate between two incompatible items.

Raw casting but looks nicely cast. The cheeks actually sit in a recess (not visible in that photo) so it's not like I can just tickle it on the belt sander or anything quick to flatten it.

The adaptor plate is for a track, it's a bit tricky to drill extra holes in it as there are already loads of holes plus letters cast into the base plus recesses and so on. I could take a rubbing and try and line up some new ones somewhere though.
The black plastic bit on that router does not feel strong enough to use as any form of attachment either. I have removed it for a look but then there is a lump of alloy sticking out the bottom of the router that gets in the way of everything.
I'm thinking of cutting a circle out of the nylon, drilling holes and helicoiling them. Then I could mount it to the adaptor easily and fit studs for the router to drop onto with some wing nuts to remove it quickly/easily.
I would loose out on cut depth but I would gain in that I would have a block that it might be easier to mount any other tools to in the future if I wanted to use them on the track as well...

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Got a top bearing pattern cutter?

If so clamp a bit of ply/MDF on top of the panel and set to depth.

Method I use to cut rebates deeper on windows and doors

 

[hotponyshoes]

Got a top bearing pattern cutter?

If so clamp a bit of ply/MDF on top of the panel and set to depth.

Method I use to cut rebates deeper on windows and doors

Yes but I dont think I have got any large diameter ones.
I need to cut 38mm wide strips around a door size sheet so I was thinking a larger cutter would mean fewer passes..

 

[Agroshield]

How far will the bit be from the cheeks? If the distance is enough, instead of two cheeks, make one long one out of something straight that is stiff enough not to deflect when bridging over the gap and secure using just the two outer screws. Pack/cushion the back of it with a few layers of masking tape where the fence is bowed inwards.

The only reason it is built with two cheeks is so you can spread them if you are cutting something so very narrow that the cutter would cut into a continuous fence.

 

[Newlands]

My little Elu 96 router fence is very flat. I have a larger Ryobi which is pretty much like the one you have, but it doesn’t ever get used as it’s mounted in a router table. I also have a ½” De Walt which I use for worktops etc which is not perfect, but I made a couple of teak strips to fit on the two faces, and then machined them so they’re flat.

On the topic of engineers vs. wood butchers, few years back I worked with a couple of blokes - one who claimed to be an engineer - he wasn’t actually much good at anything practical but he was boasting that he worked to half a thou. The other bloke, a very skilled chippy just laghed at him and said ‘Half a thou? Us chippys get our work spot on’.

 

[hotponyshoes]

How far will the bit be from the cheeks? If the distance is enough, instead of two cheeks, make one long one out of something straight that is stiff enough not to deflect when bridging over the gap and secure using just the two outer screws. Pack/cushion the back of it with a few layers of masking tape where the fence is bowed inwards.

The only reason it is built with two cheeks is so you can spread them if you are cutting something so very narrow that the cutter would cut into a continuous fence.

I was wondering about that myself, I'm thinking that as I'm cutting right from the edge of the sheet and going inwards I don't actually need that gap in the center of the fence do I?
I could just cut one strip of the nylon and make one single cheek up.
At worst the bit will hit it but its not going to do any serious damage.
I can cut the center out and shim etc at a later date if I ever need that gap for anything..

 

[grim_d]

The Trend Unibase will not help you one iota. It is meant a to replace the black base you have, not as an intermediate plate between two incompatible items.

It's not meant to replace the base of the router, it's a sub base and therefore goes straight onto it via the three fastening locations you can see.

Its not intended to be used as an intermediate plate, correct...but that's not to say you couldn't.

You do lose a bit of depth, not something that's ever caused me an issue, worse case scenario, get a longer cutter.

 

[hotponyshoes]

It's not meant to replace the base of the router, it's a sub base and therefore goes straight onto it via the three fastening locations you can see.

Its not intended to be used as an intermediate plate, correct...but that's not to say you couldn't.

You do lose a bit of depth, not something that's ever caused me an issue, worse case scenario, get a longer cutter.

I was thinking it could be used as an adaptor plate and for 20 quid inwould have given it a go but none of my local toolstations or screwfixes have them in stock..
The missus has fallen asleep so I have started making my own now

 

[Agroshield]

It's not meant to replace the base of the router, it's a sub base and therefore goes straight onto it via the three fastening locations you can see.

I am looking at this purely from an engineering perspective, so may have missed some important nuance from the woodworking world. May I ask why you would not replace the existing black plastic base? AIUI, the primary purpose of the Unibase is to make the Trend guide bush system fit any machine. It is effectively a Trend-bush-sized hole surrounded by every fixing screw pattern known to man.

So what advantage does bolting it underneath the existing black base give you as opposed to bolting directly to the aluminium? I cannot see any immediate one. I can see two immediate disadvantages: you need longer screws and possibly a longer cutter. If you want to remove the Unibase and use the original base alone, you need to carry a set of shorter screws around with you (which are very easily lost). Having two bases on it at the same time is not adding any lightness to the machine.

For his specific issue (fitting the router he has to the track guide he has) please go through step by step how the Unibase could help.

Sure, the Unibase will have a hole pattern that fits the router. It will also have a hole pattern that fits the track guide. But you need to use both those hole patterns at the same time, and that is the problem.

You can screw from the underside of the Unibase into the female thread in the aluminium router base (using the original screws). But then how do you fix that whole assembly to the track guide? The Unibase has no female threads in it to receive screws from the underside of the track guide. Every hole in it has counterbores that face downwards.

To use an an intermediate plate, you would have to put nuts into the correct holes from the top, before you fix it to the router. You have to stop them poking up above the surface that is fixed to the router (the counterbore is on the opposite side). You have to stop nuts rotating while you tighten the track base onto the Unibase. I guess you could glue the nuts into the Unibase to make them somewhat captive. However you are still left with the issue of not being able to counterbore from the top of the Unibase as there is already a counterbore on the bottom.

An awful lot of writing to save him £20.

I like his idea of helicoiling a plastic base. The other option is the serrated brass inserts - insert from the top into a spot-faced hole so they cannot pull through (e.g. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/threaded-inserts/0278584).

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

My plan for a router track base years before they started selling them was to use a thick block of HDPE and run the fence poles into it leaving the original base as it is.

 

[grim_d]

I am looking at this purely from an engineering perspective, so may have missed some important nuance from the woodworking world. May I ask why you would not replace the existing black plastic base? AIUI, the primary purpose of the Unibase is to make the Trend guide bush system fit any machine. It is effectively a Trend-bush-sized hole surrounded by every fixing screw pattern known to man.

So what advantage does bolting it underneath the existing black base give you as opposed to bolting directly to the aluminium? I cannot see any immediate one. I can see two immediate disadvantages: you need longer screws and possibly a longer cutter. If you want to remove the Unibase and use the original base alone, you need to carry a set of shorter screws around with you (which are very easily lost). Having two bases on it at the same time is not adding any lightness to the machine.

For his specific issue (fitting the router he has to the track guide he has) please go through step by step how the Unibase could help.

Sure, the Unibase will have a hole pattern that fits the router. It will also have a hole pattern that fits the track guide. But you need to use both those hole patterns at the same time, and that is the problem.

You can screw from the underside of the Unibase into the female thread in the aluminium router base (using the original screws). But then how do you fix that whole assembly to the track guide? The Unibase has no female threads in it to receive screws from the underside of the track guide. Every hole in it has counterbores that face downwards.

To use an an intermediate plate, you would have to put nuts into the correct holes from the top, before you fix it to the router. You have to stop them poking up above the surface that is fixed to the router (the counterbore is on the opposite side). You have to stop nuts rotating while you tighten the track base onto the Unibase. I guess you could glue the nuts into the Unibase to make them somewhat captive. However you are still left with the issue of not being able to counterbore from the top of the Unibase as there is already a counterbore on the bottom.

An awful lot of writing to save him £20.

I like his idea of helicoiling a plastic base. The other option is the serrated brass inserts - insert from the top into a spot-faced hole so they cannot pull through (e.g. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/threaded-inserts/0278584).

You could replace the original base however it's not necessarily intended that you do so, there's no "immediate advantage" to me to do so...so I don't. Its not a woodworking nuance, it's just not doing extra unnecessary tasks.

The uni base comes with a large range of longer fasteners for the very purpose of attaching it as well as centering pins/discs so you need to "carry around" some bits anyway...

To me...owning both a router and a unibase and having a keen interest in engineering, it would be pretty easy to stop nuts from spinning. Primarily I would be looking at the two Inserts for the guide bush or perhaps the three unused holes in the picture (if that's indeed what they are)

Let's be honest here...it's an overcomplication of matters entirely, I would just drill and tap the router base, but I appreciate not everyone wants to modify their tools.

 

[mike os]

Take sub base off... are there any other holes under there?

If not then just drill the adapter plate to suit the router , it doesn't need to be super precise in the bore, it's just a hole fot the cutter to go through

Router fences are rarely straight in engineering terms but 0.25 is plenty for wood in most cases..

If it bugs you make a pair of wooden sliders in place of the plastic ones and machine on the fence

 

[hotponyshoes]

I had tried taking the plastic base off the bottom of the router but once I had removed that i could see that the alloy underneath was mostly just a hollow recess with cast-in bosses for the existing threads so not really anywhere to drill/tap new holes.

Much the same with the bosch adaptor plate, not really any flat spots to add new holes although I could have clamped it into the drill press and countersunk through some wobbley surfaces.

The reason I didn't drill the bosch adaptor is, mainly because the only threaded holes in the base of the router are the ones holding the black plastic bit on. They are m4 and only engage with about 5mm depth of thread.
They might well have been strong enough in hindsight as there is not really any load on them (and the majority of holes in the adaptor are m4 anyway) but, with the black plastic bit removed the alloy router base is not flat so I would have to try and locate all 3 pieces with longer screws when fitting to the track adaptor then, refit the original screws if I wanted to use the router freehand again.

So I made some strong coffee and started messing about with some nylon I had.
The router has 3 spare holes in the base, these are not threaded but take a 6mm bolt nicely. I considered tapping them out to m8 but, again, the cast bosses don't really have a lot of meat around them plus the only holes in the adaptor are m4, m5 and m6.
Thinking about it now I could have just stuck some m6 helicoils in those holes but I didn't think about doing that until just now!!

I sat the router on a nylon block, 2 of the holes were a bit close to the edge so I used a bit of steel as a guide spacer to leave a bit of meat on the nylon.


Transfered those 3 holes through and drilled then then fitted 3 m6 helicoils. I then bolted the router down to it, stuck a 6mm drill bit in the router and drilled the center hole with the router itself.
Them drew round the rounded part of the router base with a marker pen and chopped it roughly to shape with a jigsaw.
Took the plate off again, took the center hole out to 51mm ( that's the size of the risen up ring on the bosch adaptor) then dropped the block in place on the adaptor and marked out from 3 of the 6mm holes available on that.
Helicoiled those 3
Removed the black plastic base from the router and bolted that to the nylon by itself then used a bearing guided cutter in a router to follow around it and trim the block to the final shape.

I was planning to fit 3 m6 studs into the helicoiled holes so it would be quick and easy to drop the router in place and secure with wing nuts but one of the cast bosses for the fence rods is so close to one of the holes a wing nut won't fit so I have just used normal bolts for now.
I suppose I could fit a longer stud to that hole and then drop a spacer over it if I find I really want to use wing nuts in the future or I might even find it holds well enough just using 2 of the 3 bolts..

The main problem with it is the nylon block is 20mm thick then the rail adaptor is another 5mm so that's 25mm of depth lost on a router that only had 50mm of plunge to start with!

That's not a problem for the job i need to do this weekend as I only need 2mm cut depth but I can see it being as issue in the future.
I did consider making the adaptor from some 6mm alloy sheet but didn't want to start cutting that up and annoying the neighbours at 2am.

I put it all together and tested it out on the remainder of the nylon block by making up a new cheek for the fence.
The longest 1/4" bit I had was something like 32mm and with that was only just enough to face off the 20mm nylon and was nowhere near as far into the collet as I would have liked!!

Again, the cheek was made from 20mm nylon and I left it at the original thickness so possibly lost a bit of capacity but I figured it would be simpler to just cut some longer rods if needed than mess about facing it down.
Fitted it to the original holes with some countersunk bolts.
I have left it as one piece for now so at least the guide edge is straight.
I have sat it on a bit of devcon putty and only nipped up the bolts (will tighten those once the putty has set) so if I do ever need to cut the middle out then it will stay straight!

A couple of points if anybody else is thinking of making one...

The bosch adaptor simply sits over a risen section on the tracks. There is nothing holding it in place. It would have actually been pretty easy to just mount the nylon block to the router and then cut a groove in the nylon to locate it onto the track and save you buying the bosch adaptor in the first place!
Although you would loose the ability to wind it in and out which is probably an essential feature of it?
I know I used that to take a couple of 1mm cuts then do a 0.2mm finishing pass.

When I was searching the Internet to see why the holes on the (supposedly compatible) bosch items did not line up I found people mentioning that the router sits at an angle to the track. Presumably this is for comfort or visibility in use?
I mounted mine at 90deg to the track and it works fine. Obviously it's going to cut the same regardless of what angle you mount it but I did notice that if if I connected the dust extraction up then the hose would be running along the length of the track and would probably be annoying.
If the router was mounted at 45deg you could run the hose along side the track which would be better.
I think the 3 holes on the router base are equidistant but I can't rotate it using them as I copied the flat edge of the router base into my adaptor. (Although I probably could and just overhang it without issues other than swarf entrapment)
I could chuck some extra rivnuts on the underside if required.

When I was searching for some longer router bits I found some longer 1/2" ones so, considering the 25mm loss I should have just mounted my 1/2" router too this instead but that's not got any fine adjustability on the plunge and it's a lot heavier than the 1/4" one.
Again, I can just pop in some more helicoils if I want to use that or, if I am just doing the full face of something, make a first cut with the track then finish it with a guided cutter.