Most is from gas actually hence our current problem. Far cleaner than coal but prices have gone mental. Nuclear prices don't fluctuatuate.
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MysterG
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So basically Octopus are lying.
G. B. National Grid status
www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk
RonMig
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Mains gas boiler to radiators and hot water tank...
We could probably save over £1,000 pa when the 2 work-from-homers leave home...
daleyd
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Not really - if they were I’m fairly sure lawyers would have a field day. I assume what they mean is that they “buy” their energy from suppliers that only get energy from those sources, rather than fossil fuel suppliers.
The fact that the stuff you get from the grid is very obviously from “all” forms of generation is a different matter. It’s not like octopus can supply you with only their electricity…
Gareth J
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Yea, your cost estimate highlights just how expensive battery systems still are.For comparison to post #169 from @puffernutter above, here is where I'm at -
With 4 adults at home 24/7 (2 retired, 2 working) our Winter consumption is currently -
a) 95kwh/day (£4/day-gas) £122/mth
b) 30kwh/day (£6/day-electric) £183/mth
Being naturally more pessimistic I reckon not 7 but 5hours/day at 3kw from a 4kw system would be more realistic
If correct this would reduce b) by only 15kw/day.
So a potential £90/mth benefit - (£1,080pa) which Might go higher due to summer sunshine/longer hours (but also Might Not).
Whilst lowering my bills by £1,000 a year appeals, I'm still struggling to justify spending (£12k?) on solar to achieve it, when a 12-year payback would put me in my late 70's ...
If you want a quicker payback, get a smaller system that you're more likely to use the maximum of and go without batteries. Other thing to consider is whether or not you have a hot water cylinder or can fit one. Can use it to store excess to offset gas heating of hot water. At current prices, solar is cheaper than gas used for heating.
Yup, they're always high
addjunkie
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A large part of savings with solar and a quicker payback is to use everything you generate for something useful. Run your washer/dryer, cook, do the iorning etc during the sunshine times.Yea, your cost estimate highlights just how expensive battery systems still are.
If you want a quicker payback, get a smaller system that you're more likely to use the maximum of and go without batteries. Other thing to consider is whether or not you have a hot water cylinder or can fit one. Can use it to store excess to offset gas heating of hot water. At current prices, solar is cheaper than gas used for heating.
Yup, they're always high
yes we have the optimiser to divert spare to our hot water system, but how many of us shower mid afternoon where we would use the hot water.
I quite likethe battery idea, but its too dear.
Gareth J
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You need a big HW tank to make it work. We recently upgraded from 200l to 400l. The 200l would help bridge a lot of duller summer days but hoping the big one will almost eliminate non solar hot water heating this summer. We shall see.
But yes, electric to run a dishwasher or washing machine is more expensive than that used to heat water so that's definitely the number 1 priority!
DAPPH
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See if the genuine Tessla guys are still running. I found their survey and calculation engineer very useful & interesting , with no pressure to buy at all .Right, back to the mundane and my personal situation
We've had one quote (another one planned for next week). They reckon they can get 12 x 390W panels on our roof, best generation will be from midday. We are being offered a "smart" battery and controller with the order being - suppling house any extra charging battery and any left heating water (we have a tank and electric immersion). Cost is around £12k of which £6K is the battery. VAT is 5%. If we wait and have the battery added later, the VAT for that will be 20%.
What I am struggling with is the benefit calculations, I've been on line and seen the numbers, but I am not sure I understand them. I am but a simple engineer!
Our winter usage is high at 69kW/day. Conservatively (in winter) the panels will run for say 7 hours at an average of 3kW/h, so assuming I can use all the generated power (in one way shape or form) that will be a saving of 21kWh, so just under a third? Does that make sense or is that too simplified? The guy from the solar panel company was friendly, knowledgeable, but at the same time, he's a salesman, so trying to see through all the smoke/mirrors!
Cheers
Peter
DAPPH
as dyslexik as I'm daft
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Use the historic rule of the thumb of £ 10 being only having half the buying power after ten years or better put every ten years it will cost you double .For comparison to post #169 from @puffernutter above, here is where I'm at -
With 4 adults at home 24/7 (2 retired, 2 working) our Winter consumption is currently -
a) 95kwh/day (£4/day-gas) £122/mth
b) 30kwh/day (£6/day-electric) £183/mth
Being naturally more pessimistic I reckon not 7 but 5hours/day at 3kw from a 4kw system would be more realistic
If correct this would reduce b) by only 15kw/day.
So a potential £90/mth benefit - (£1,080pa) which Might go higher due to summer sunshine/longer hours (but also Might Not).
Whilst lowering my bills by £1,000 a year appeals, I'm still struggling to justify spending (£12k?) on solar to achieve it, when a 12-year payback would put me in my late 70's ...
Whilst you cannot precisely work out what the cost of a unit will be, do a straight line graph and get a rough guide of what your electricity will cost each additional year so long as Putin & cronies don't start the third world war . Also ask yourself what would £12 K put in a good bank account earn you . That's what we did and it was a no brainer that we would benefit from 16 panels correctly placed & installed.
JMS1972
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Not really lying they buy energy from producers that use renewable only.
So their customers use 10gigwatt hours and they buy 10 gigawatts hours of renewables.
But whether the actual electrons and holes got pushed by fossils or wind no-one knows.
What is true though is that their customers do not pay money to non-renewable suppliers.
AVI_8
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No as previously described, the electricity you get is the same as the electricity I get. I was with Pure Planet which promised similar Green energy until they went bust a few months ago.
If all of the energy coming through your electricity cable was from Green energy then when the wind stopped blowing your lights would go out when the wind stopped blowing, your freezer would de-frost and you’d be very angry.
My point was that in the UK in general, as power plants go, whether coal fired or nuclear, as these plants close, there is no replacement, other than windmills, we need to be self sustainable in the UK, we cannot rely on wind because wind does not always blow, we cannot rely on solar because there is often perma cloud, so we need to have sustainable power when renewables are not working, unless we start to replace these nuclear power stations with new ones we‘re not going to be able to produce the necessary power needed for the future, surely if we rely on France or other countries to supply our power we’re on the road to becoming a third world country?
Where is the Great in Great Britain when we can’t even produce sustainable energy, I’m all for renewables, but we need a backbone, and that’s Nuclear, Isambard Kingdom Brunel would be turning in his grave.
And I apologise for the thread deviation which was all about renewable energy which I very much appreciate and am considering myself.
Gareth J
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Back to towards topic for a moment. If it's of interest, I just priced a brand new setup (solar sparky this time) 3.9kW all required bits and bobs for a DIY install on a tin roof, £2200 Inc vat.
That's reasonably cheap, 390W panels. You might get it a bit cheaper if you had more space to play with but I was limited to choosing ones that tesselated well.
A "hybrid" inverter, ready for batteries at a later date would add a couple hundred.
If I didn't already have 4kW array, it'd be a no brainer. But it's diminishing returns at this point. I'd only be doing it to cut heating oil usage a bit more really. Without something hungry like a heat pump or electric car to hoover up some more generation, it's not that sensible. But then, not every decihas to be brutally sensible!
That's reasonably cheap, 390W panels. You might get it a bit cheaper if you had more space to play with but I was limited to choosing ones that tesselated well.
A "hybrid" inverter, ready for batteries at a later date would add a couple hundred.
If I didn't already have 4kW array, it'd be a no brainer. But it's diminishing returns at this point. I'd only be doing it to cut heating oil usage a bit more really. Without something hungry like a heat pump or electric car to hoover up some more generation, it's not that sensible. But then, not every decihas to be brutally sensible!
8ob
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I am possibly going to install them at my Dad's old house in The Algarve.
Spot the difference. Taken late October. Serious drought conditions. Not a blade of grass. Bare earth like Mars
I would check you can insure against wild fire damage before littering that hillside with Solar panels, its got that look Fizzy.
Bob
That seems very cheap. Do you have a link for the panels?
You shouldn't be trying to replace heating oil which is about 4p per kw/h. You want to cut down on household electric which is 23p per kw,/h and rising.
Gareth J
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SolarSparky | TradeSparky
The latest solar PV products by SolarSparky are available now on TradeSparky. Including Solar Panels, Inverters, Roof Mounting Systems and accessories.
I haven't chosen the cheapest £/watt as would prefer black panels and the shape of the roof favours something a bit more energy dense than the cheapest. I've been telling you for quite a while that these are about the price of it although I do notice that prices have dropped a bit more since I last bought a set.
At those prices, given an expected 20 yr lifespan, a kWh is cheaper than oil @4p. But I won't be able to displace that much oil consumption anyway. Hence, to make them viable, need to be combined with some other electrical consuming thing. A mini aluminium smelting plant maybe.
Edit; PS; heating oil is currently at about 6p per kWh. And that's assuming whatever you're burning it in is 100% efficient.
daleyd
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Not forgetting oil is unlikely to remain at 4p/kWh (in fact I think you’d struggle to get it for that now, given the current rises…)SolarSparky | TradeSparky
The latest solar PV products by SolarSparky are available now on TradeSparky. Including Solar Panels, Inverters, Roof Mounting Systems and accessories.www.tradesparky.com
I haven't chosen the cheapest £/watt as would prefer black panels and the shape of the roof favours something a bit more energy dense than the cheapest. I've been telling you for quite a while that these are about the price of it although I do notice that prices have dropped a bit more since I last bought a set.
At those prices, given an expected 20 yr lifespan, a kWh is cheaper than oil @4p. But I won't be able to displace that much oil consumption anyway. Hence, to make them viable, need to be combined with some other electrical consuming thing. A mini aluminium smelting plant maybe.
52p per litre my last lot.SolarSparky | TradeSparky
The latest solar PV products by SolarSparky are available now on TradeSparky. Including Solar Panels, Inverters, Roof Mounting Systems and accessories.
I haven't chosen the cheapest £/watt as would prefer black panels and the shape of the roof favours something a bit more energy dense than the cheapest. I've been telling you for quite a while that these are about the price of it although I do notice that prices have dropped a bit more since I last bought a set.
At those prices, given an expected 20 yr lifespan, a kWh is cheaper than oil @4p. But I won't be able to displace that much oil consumption anyway. Hence, to make them viable, need to be combined with some other electrical consuming thing. A mini aluminium smelting plant maybe.
Edit; PS; heating oil is currently at about 6p per kWh. And that's assuming whatever you're burning it in is 100% efficient.
Gareth J
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Yea, mine was similar. There is more or less 10kwh/litre so, that's around 5p/kWh. Again, assuming 100% efficiency. Current prices are about 60p.
