rtcosic
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I haven't seen full-cycle CO2 for solar and my Google Fu has deserted me. Has anyone got a link to a reliable source for such assessments? There must be some somewhere.
- Thread starter puffernutter
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I haven't seen full-cycle CO2 for solar and my Google Fu has deserted me. Has anyone got a link to a reliable source for such assessments? There must be some somewhere.
Hmm, who do you trust these days?
puffernutter
Puffernutter
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Right, back to the mundane and my personal situation 
It's amazing how these threads morph into all sorts of related areas!
We've had one quote (another one planned for next week). They reckon they can get 12 x 390W panels on our roof, best generation will be from midday. We are being offered a "smart" battery and controller with the order being - suppling house any extra charging battery and any left heating water (we have a tank and electric immersion). Cost is around £12k of which £6K is the battery. VAT is 5%. If we wait and have the battery added later, the VAT for that will be 20%.
What I am struggling with is the benefit calculations, I've been on line and seen the numbers, but I am not sure I understand them. I am but a simple engineer!
Our winter usage is high at 69kW/day. Conservatively (in winter) the panels will run for say 7 hours at an average of 3kW/h, so assuming I can use all the generated power (in one way shape or form) that will be a saving of 21kWh, so just under a third? Does that make sense or is that too simplified? The guy from the solar panel company was friendly, knowledgeable, but at the same time, he's a salesman, so trying to see through all the smoke/mirrors!
Cheers
Peter
It's amazing how these threads morph into all sorts of related areas!We've had one quote (another one planned for next week). They reckon they can get 12 x 390W panels on our roof, best generation will be from midday. We are being offered a "smart" battery and controller with the order being - suppling house any extra charging battery and any left heating water (we have a tank and electric immersion). Cost is around £12k of which £6K is the battery. VAT is 5%. If we wait and have the battery added later, the VAT for that will be 20%.
What I am struggling with is the benefit calculations, I've been on line and seen the numbers, but I am not sure I understand them. I am but a simple engineer!
Our winter usage is high at 69kW/day. Conservatively (in winter) the panels will run for say 7 hours at an average of 3kW/h, so assuming I can use all the generated power (in one way shape or form) that will be a saving of 21kWh, so just under a third? Does that make sense or is that too simplified? The guy from the solar panel company was friendly, knowledgeable, but at the same time, he's a salesman, so trying to see through all the smoke/mirrors!
Cheers
Peter
France do extremely well out of it and sell loads of electricity to Europe - including us.
Not the ideal solution I agree but certainly the best one we have until fusion finally start working.
What battery is it?Right, back to the mundane and my personal situation
We've had one quote (another one planned for next week). They reckon they can get 12 x 390W panels on our roof, best generation will be from midday. We are being offered a "smart" battery and controller with the order being - suppling house any extra charging battery and any left heating water (we have a tank and electric immersion). Cost is around £12k of which £6K is the battery. VAT is 5%. If we wait and have the battery added later, the VAT for that will be 20%.
What I am struggling with is the benefit calculations, I've been on line and seen the numbers, but I am not sure I understand them. I am but a simple engineer!
Our winter usage is high at 69kW/day. Conservatively (in winter) the panels will run for say 7 hours at an average of 3kW/h, so assuming I can use all the generated power (in one way shape or form) that will be a saving of 21kWh, so just under a third? Does that make sense or is that too simplified? The guy from the solar panel company was friendly, knowledgeable, but at the same time, he's a salesman, so trying to see through all the smoke/mirrors!
Cheers
Peter
A forklift battery is the most cost effective - about £2k.
JMS1972
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I was being quoted around 5k for 4kw and about 7k with a battery. Get lots of quotes as fitting costs vary a lot. This is generally where their profit margin hidesRight, back to the mundane and my personal situation
We've had one quote (another one planned for next week). They reckon they can get 12 x 390W panels on our roof, best generation will be from midday. We are being offered a "smart" battery and controller with the order being - suppling house any extra charging battery and any left heating water (we have a tank and electric immersion). Cost is around £12k of which £6K is the battery. VAT is 5%. If we wait and have the battery added later, the VAT for that will be 20%.
What I am struggling with is the benefit calculations, I've been on line and seen the numbers, but I am not sure I understand them. I am but a simple engineer!
Our winter usage is high at 69kW/day. Conservatively (in winter) the panels will run for say 7 hours at an average of 3kW/h, so assuming I can use all the generated power (in one way shape or form) that will be a saving of 21kWh, so just under a third? Does that make sense or is that too simplified? The guy from the solar panel company was friendly, knowledgeable, but at the same time, he's a salesman, so trying to see through all the smoke/mirrors!
Cheers
Peter
daleyd
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At current prices?Based on your costs if I was to have the same install it would take 14 years to break even
How is your usage so high?
Are you all electric heating?
If so install oil - 4p per kw/h cheap as chips.
You will not get 3kW out of your system in the winter unless you are in cloudless sky conditions. Even if you do, the day, and useful sunlight is much shorter...Right, back to the mundane and my personal situation
We've had one quote (another one planned for next week). They reckon they can get 12 x 390W panels on our roof, best generation will be from midday. We are being offered a "smart" battery and controller with the order being - suppling house any extra charging battery and any left heating water (we have a tank and electric immersion). Cost is around £12k of which £6K is the battery. VAT is 5%. If we wait and have the battery added later, the VAT for that will be 20%.
What I am struggling with is the benefit calculations, I've been on line and seen the numbers, but I am not sure I understand them. I am but a simple engineer!
Our winter usage is high at 69kW/day. Conservatively (in winter) the panels will run for say 7 hours at an average of 3kW/h, so assuming I can use all the generated power (in one way shape or form) that will be a saving of 21kWh, so just under a third? Does that make sense or is that too simplified? The guy from the solar panel company was friendly, knowledgeable, but at the same time, he's a salesman, so trying to see through all the smoke/mirrors!
Cheers
Peter
I don't dispute they do very well with it, but I question the "clean" label it carries - pending someone showing me the numbers?
Pete.
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The metalwork in nuclear plants is not *all* written off. I know this because I've been involved in a small part of decommission and my work was specifically related to making contaminated metal safe for regular recycling.
Gareth J
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Cheap, really? What's the cost of nuclear in France?
Hinckley C strike price was agreed at £92.50/MWh
U.K. Power Is So High That EDF Hinkley Reactor Looks Good Value
U.K. power prices have climbed so high that the cost of a new controversial nuclear plant, criticized for being too expensive, is now looking reasonable.
www.bloomberg.com
Looks ok at today's prices but this whole thread has been initiated because today's prices are too expensive.
For comparison, big wind farms have come down to about £45.
Analysis: Record-low price for UK offshore wind cheaper than existing gas plants by 2023
The UK is to get its first subsidy-free offshore windfarms after the government awarded contracts today for nearly 6 gigawatts (GW) of capacity, at prices below those it expects on the open market.
www.carbonbrief.org
A DIY solar installation can be around £30-40.
Of course, the real value of nuclear is that it'll still spin the turbines in the dead of winter. So it's not a fair comparison to renewables that are cheaper. But that doesn't mean cheaper renewables aren't valuable. Especially seeing as on sunny/windy days were still having to burn stuff.
Farmers in Kent grow strawberrys in the summer. There's demand there to make it financially viable but, as they can't do it all year round, maybe they shouldn't bother.
The real cost of windfaem electricity is far higher. Hidden are all the cost when they are paid to stop generating etc.Cheap, really? What's the cost of nuclear in France?
Hinckley C strike price was agreed at £92.50/MWh
View attachment 332067
U.K. Power Is So High That EDF Hinkley Reactor Looks Good Value
U.K. power prices have climbed so high that the cost of a new controversial nuclear plant, criticized for being too expensive, is now looking reasonable.
Looks ok at today's prices but this whole thread has been initiated because today's prices are too expensive.
For comparison, big wind farms have come down to about £45.
Analysis: Record-low price for UK offshore wind cheaper than existing gas plants by 2023
The UK is to get its first subsidy-free offshore windfarms after the government awarded contracts today for nearly 6 gigawatts (GW) of capacity, at prices below those it expects on the open market.
A DIY solar installation can be around £30-40.
Of course, the real value of nuclear is that it'll still spin the turbines in the dead of winter. So it's not a fair comparison to renewables that are cheaper. But that doesn't mean cheaper renewables aren't valuable. Especially seeing as on sunny/windy days were still having to burn stuff.
Farmers in Kent grow strawberrys in the summer. There's demand there to make it financially viable but, as they can't do it all year round, maybe they shouldn't bother.
Baglan Bay Power station is a classic example of the folly of our power supply.
It along with several other gas powerstations have gone bust. Nobody pays them to keep running and yet when we need power they have started burning coal. Or buy as much nuclear electricity from France.
Injunction aims to stop power cut to Baglan energy park - BBC News
Power was due to be cut off from the business park on Friday, but an injunction may prevent this.
www.bbc.co.uk
Gareth J
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Do you really think that payments to stop generation double the strike price? If so, could you explain, with numbers, why - or link to somewhere that does.
I took issue with your post asserting that nuclear is "cheap". What do the French pay per MWh on their nuclear stations?
Our electricity is 23p per kw/h the facts speak for themselves. Anyway back to the original post please sorry for diverting his thread.
Gareth J
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Or, £230/MWh. If that helps put the wholesale prices I was quoting into perspective. Doesn't alter the fact that nuclear is expensive and that, if you can use it, renewables are cheap.
MysterG
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We get our Electric from Octopus who state
"All our electricity comes from 100% renewable sources like sun, wind and water"
I presume they are lying as they cannot guarantee that as far as I can tell, also their prices are much like any other energy Tariff, expensive.
"All our electricity comes from 100% renewable sources like sun, wind and water"
I presume they are lying as they cannot guarantee that as far as I can tell, also their prices are much like any other energy Tariff, expensive.
RonMig
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For comparison to post #169 from @puffernutter above, here is where I'm at -
With 4 adults at home 24/7 (2 retired, 2 working) our Winter consumption is currently -
a) 95kwh/day (£4/day-gas) £122/mth
b) 30kwh/day (£6/day-electric) £183/mth
Being naturally more pessimistic I reckon not 7 but 5hours/day at 3kw from a 4kw system would be more realistic
If correct this would reduce b) by only 15kw/day.
So a potential £90/mth benefit - (£1,080pa) which Might go higher due to summer sunshine/longer hours (but also Might Not).
Whilst lowering my bills by £1,000 a year appeals, I'm still struggling to justify spending (£12k?) on solar to achieve it, when a 12-year payback would put me in my late 70's ...
With 4 adults at home 24/7 (2 retired, 2 working) our Winter consumption is currently -
a) 95kwh/day (£4/day-gas) £122/mth
b) 30kwh/day (£6/day-electric) £183/mth
Being naturally more pessimistic I reckon not 7 but 5hours/day at 3kw from a 4kw system would be more realistic
If correct this would reduce b) by only 15kw/day.
So a potential £90/mth benefit - (£1,080pa) which Might go higher due to summer sunshine/longer hours (but also Might Not).
Whilst lowering my bills by £1,000 a year appeals, I'm still struggling to justify spending (£12k?) on solar to achieve it, when a 12-year payback would put me in my late 70's ...
What sort of heating do you have?For comparison to post #169 from @puffernutter above, here is where I'm at -
With 4 adults at home 24/7 (2 retired, 2 working) our Winter consumption is currently -
a) 95kwh/day (£4/day-gas) £122/mth
b) 30kwh/day (£6/day-electric) £183/mth
Being naturally more pessimistic I reckon not 7 but 5hours/day at 3kw from a 4kw system would be more realistic
If correct this would reduce b) by only 15kw/day.
So a potential £90/mth benefit - (£1,080pa) which Might go higher due to summer sunshine/longer hours (but also Might Not).
Whilst lowering my bills by £1,000 a year appeals, I'm still struggling to justify spending (£12k?) on solar to achieve it, when a 12-year payback would put me in my late 70's ...
AVI_8
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But the electricity which goes through the big cable to your house comes from the national grid, and on days where there’s no or little wind means the majority of it is coming from a coal fired or nuclear power station.
Its time that our collective governments get their stupid heads out of the sand and start investing in a more sustainable power source which works all year round and not just when the wind is blowing.
Another few nuclear power stations would help for starters, something which will give us cheaper electricity for a good few decades to come, where we’re not relying on expensive imports.
Same with gas and oil, there’s enough gas off the North Sea to last a while yet we’re importing expensive gas, you couldn’t make it up
