Solar power on roofs - more viable with energy price hikes?

[Keith 66]

We had solar panels installed a year before the feed in tariff ended, there has been a noticeable saving in electricity as we are careful to always run appliances during the day. Our roof is ideally oriented facing south.
As to what they actually generate we have never got to the bottom of what the meter actually displays.
But we are quite glad that a year & a half ago we signed up to a fixed price rate deal with our supplier so wont be getting any surprises soon. Only thing i need to do is fit a small stove in the workshop if i can find the room!

 

[dobbslc]

An interesting thread as we're thinking of doing something with our roof, weather it's solar or solar thermal I'm not sure yet.
Here's my results from the calculator,

 

[Trevorleach]

Just checked that site, and it reckons I could save 336 quid a year, so to make it pay it has to be a diy job (3.5k kit price) as the payback on pro fit means you could never see a sensible return, but its not like power prices are going to drop!

 

[mike os]

What's the deal on diy fit? When or where do you need to involve a spark?

 

[Trevorleach]

What's the deal on diy fit? When or where do you need to involve a spark?

Not sure you need one, google forms G98/99, which are basically telling your supplier that you have generating equip on site which are connected to the incoming mains.

 

[Trevorleach]

Real life data from my evac tube set up.

 

[Trevorleach]

By month,

 

[Gareth J]

By month,View attachment 331415View attachment 331417View attachment 331419

Great to see data. If you don't mind me asking, do you know what a ballpark figure for institution would be now? Would be great to compare with output from a comparable PV setup. I have a diverter widget that records kWh "saved". In my current situation, with 4kWp PV, the unit has saved ~13,500kWh over 8years, so ~1600kwh/year. (Should increase this year as have increased tank size) An equivalent setup now would cost ~£5000-6000 installed professionally or ~£3500 DIY.

 

[Robbie260]

When the Feed In tariff dropped significantly a few years ago, the idea of filling my roof with solar panels was less appealing. However with the current energy situation (even though we got a 2 year fixed rate deal last August) I wonder are solar panels the way to go to reduce energy costs - with two children (36 and 31 at home) it does feel like my bill is the same as a small country!

So what are the views? I have a terraced house with a tall roof, so I'd get someone to fit them. Companies to use/avoid. Do you buy the panels, do you rent roof space to them? I assume there must be a converter and something that decides where the energy for the house comes from - solar or grid and how much it costs?

Cheers

Peter

Be careful there is talk/muttering from the powers at be and the big energy companies that in the very near future you will be charged the same rate as you would pay even if you are generating the electricity yourself and completely disconnected from the grid. It’s supposed to be an attempt to stifle possible losses in revenue and funds to repair, maintain and upgrade the national grid.

 

[minimutly]

Not sure you need one, google forms G98/99, which are basically telling your supplier that you have generating equip on site which are connected to the incoming mains.

Bad advice in the context of roof fitted solar - it comes under G83 - type tested inverters - below 16A I believe you just tell your supplier.

 

[Trevorleach]

Great to see data. If you don't mind me asking, do you know what a ballpark figure for institution would be now? Would be great to compare with output from a comparable PV setup. I have a diverter widget that records kWh "saved". In my current situation, with 4kWp PV, the unit has saved ~13,500kWh over 8years, so ~1600kwh/year. (Should increase this year as have increased tank size) An equivalent setup now would cost ~£5000-6000 installed professionally or ~£3500 DIY.

No idea on cost today as I fitted it myself, Iirc kit of parts and all the wiring/plumbing/pipe/pump etc was 2.5k.

If I was to do it again I I would go full PV with the PV heating the water first.

I think when I fitted it I reckoned on a 5 to 7 year payback bar any breakages/failures.

 

[Trevorleach]

Be careful there is talk/muttering from the powers at be and the big energy companies that in the very near future you will be charged the same rate as you would pay even if you are generating the electricity yourself and completely disconnected from the grid. It’s supposed to be an attempt to stifle possible losses in revenue and funds to repair, maintain and upgrade the national grid.

Sounds like the tv licence all over again.

 

[Trevorleach]

How exactly are they going to manage to do that? Charge for wood burners? Assume everybody uses huge amounts of power? Those that o to bed when it gets dark and rise at dawn to be charged the same amount?

They already make a charge for being grid connected. It is called the ‘daily standing charge’. That is charged whether one uses any energy or not (like it includes when on holiday, for instance).

Spain tried it. It did not work.

Bet it will come down to the councils to police it, and with google maps that cant be to hard to do.

 

[Gareth J]

No idea on cost today as I fitted it myself, Iirc kit of parts and all the wiring/plumbing/pipe/pump etc was 2.5k.

If I was to do it again I I would go full PV with the PV heating the water first.

I think when I fitted it I reckoned on a 5 to 7 year payback bar any breakages/failures.

Thanks! Due to the distances involved and requirements, when I did a DiY solar installation, pure water heating wasn't an option but interesting to know they're kind of in the same ballpark.

 

[DAPPH]

The garage has its own supply........
Let me add that I run a dehumidifier in the winter occasionally, the lighting load is a few hundred watts still (slowly swapping in leds), and then there is whatever tools I use. So it would need a battery system I think.

Perhaps an outside freezer different to a modern inside freezer & a pair of 15 watt incandescent bulbs wired in parallel for a permanent load could be a load to help keep a power wall trickle charged ? Not knowing the full capabilities of the latest power walls ......... If you building yourself add an inverter with a thermostatic switch so the feed to the freezer only becomes live when the freezer calls for electricity . You'd be able to benefit from the extra back ground heat in the place too .

Using the domestic mains supply & day time generated power is how we have kept my mancupboard & other stuff dry . That and me putting in a 100 mm waste pipe high up in the back wall with an elbow on the outside facing down as a shielded from the rain air inlet /outlet , there is also a bit of 1/2 " chicken wire balled up & stuffed up the elbow to stop squirrels , bats & birds getting in.

 

[DAPPH]

what are thoughts on ground mounted panels

also do the rules differ significantly?

My roof is not well suited so thinking of an alternative

Mind you the above calculator only saves me 270 a year and a loss of 200 over the life of the system?????

There are occasionally secondhand systems available .. on the likes of eBay . and social media like Facebook market place . if you test run it on the ground and find a problem it will still be likely to be a lot cheaper to rectify than buying a new system

 

[DAPPH]

Bet it will come down to the councils to police it, and with google maps that cant be to hard to do.

I think you are right , don't you need planning these days to install one and have to have a valid licence.to use it . A quick satellite pass by the likes of Google at night will surely pick up heat signatures which can be interrogated automatically by high speed computers and matched up to google maps to give an indication of who is producing a lot of chimney heat at home or in premises . They'll sell this info to councils and like as not with a bit of joined up thinking will be able to say if the premise has a wood burner licence . Then if there isn't an authorised council enforcement officer can do the rounds to check .

 

[DAPPH]

Thanks! Due to the distances involved and requirements, when I did a DiY solar installation, pure water heating wasn't an option but interesting to know they're kind of in the same ballpark.

Whilst I was working at BT I saw an enclosed 30 or so 1200 mm long earth spike copper rod set up , threaded into a copper manifold system set up on a south facing newly constructed screwed to the wall porch roof . The pipe runs to the reservoir tank in the bath room were very short as the bathroom was above the porch . I think the heat loop etc was to be filled with some non dangerous non corrosive antifreeze .

 

[DAPPH]

It is my understanding that you need planning for ground mounted.
various ways of doin* it, one is a plastic box weighted down the panel sit in at an angle, also used on flat roofs, the ither a steel frame with angled panels sat on. On farms these are often raised enough to let sheep graze below.

im national park, so need planning to just about everything, as my house was old didnt want the roof messed with so investigated ground mounted. Ended up with a new roof on our stone barns so used the viridan inbuilt ones in the end. Look far better than the clag it on with unistrut options.

A local church in Saron near Ammanford , Swansea , has them lent like grave stones against the church wall , they might be fixed to the wall with a top clip , or a hanging 15 litre plastic container of salty water . See if you can find them on Google earth .

 

[DAPPH]

Dapph, you used my post out of context. At no point did I say, or suggest, that - except for those offers of third party installs on your roof with an energy contract over a likely 25 year period. There have been so many legal problems with non-owned panels (with third party contracts) when a house sale comes around.

Would you pay as much for a house where you have no control of your roof for the next umpteen years? I wouldn’t. I would want to install my own panels and receive the benefits.

I might want to extend the roof space for an extra room and put in a couple of velox windows. Not possible if someone else owns those panels and has a legal contract for the next umpteen years.

Yes, I stick by my post - don’t consider these free installations of panels because you may well regret it in the future.

Apologies , I now see where you are coming from .
There is no way we could do the extra space & window trick , our roof has factory made tested trusses .

The guy who sold us our system explained that such legal difficulties with selling would not be present due to what his contracts said . Though we didn't do it , we also checked with several insurers as to if they would be covered under our homeowners dwellings insurance or would they need special individual insurance , they all replied , "Under the domestic policy as per the domestic policy exclusions " . Knowing insurers that may have changed .