Idea to melt lead on a stove build

[daleyd]

I used to melt lead for fishing weights in a bean tin over a fire in the garden in my younger days, before I knew better!

I do a fair bit of work now at a place that makes fuel additives (light aircraft fuel and, I think 1 or 2 countries worldwide, still use lead in fuel) that have high lead content, though I don't tend to go into areas that are heavily contaminated that much - I still try and keep my hands in my pockets when I'm in there though

 

[bourbon]

As I understand it. Lead slowly coats the bones ( can be picked up on an x-ray) this 'suffocates' the bones. As it is cumulative the body doesn't get rid of it. That's about my limit

 

[Parm]

I used to melt lead for fishing weights in a bean tin over a fire in the garden in my younger days, before I knew better!

I do a fair bit of work now at a place that makes fuel additives (light aircraft fuel and, I think 1 or 2 countries worldwide, still use lead in fuel) that have high lead content, though I don't tend to go into areas that are heavily contaminated that much - I still try and keep my hands in my pockets when I'm in there though

Is this place at Ellesmere Port?

 

[daleyd]

Is this place at Ellesmere Port?

Yeah

 

[Parm]

Yeah

The consultancy I worked for had a big on site occupational health centre there. The chief medic was a world renowned expert on blood lead. He retired about 10 years ago

Some quite interesting things happen there

 

[Porkypine]

Apparently an early arctic ( or was it antarctic) expedition type thing went a bit pear shaped and a bunch of blokes were stranded, they had lots of tinned grub but mysteriously died anyway.. In modern times they exhumed some of the bodies which were found very well preserved, having been effectively in the freezer since they were buried, an examination found they'd died of lead poisoning, the culprit was the lead solder used to seal the tins of food they were eating exclusively. This would've been when canning foods was in it's infancy.

 

[daleyd]

RPS? They have the occupational health centre on site - I use them for my offshore medicals.

For the main site we've just done some work this summer to add a new tank farm to an existing process, but that was on a different part of plant than the lead area.

 

[daleyd]

Apparently an early arctic ( or was it antarctic) expedition type thing went a bit pear shaped and a bunch of blokes were stranded, they had lots of tinned grub but mysteriously died anyway.. In modern times they exhumed some of the bodies which were found very well preserved, having been effectively in the freezer since they were buried, an examination found they'd died of lead poisoning, the culprit was the lead solder used to seal the tins of food they were eating exclusively. This would've been when canning foods was in it's infancy.

Hms Erebus and Terror? Dramatised in the series "The Terror" (with added monsters! ) but based on real events - they do believe they exhibited quite elevated lead levels due to dodgy canning techniques.

 

[ronan]

Lee Precision Production Pot IV 20Lb 220v 90948 - Premier Distributors

Large diameter high capacity pot, holds approximately 20 pounds of lead. A generous 4"es of clearance under the spout accepts all brands of bullet molds and most sinker molds

www.cdsgltd.co.uk

 

[Screwdriver]

Lot of old wives tales being pedalled here as "fact". You do not generate "lead fumes" from smelting. You can generate toxic fumes from contaminants either in the lead or painted on it but the lead itself remains a solid. The only way for lead to enter the body is as particulate matter, by the time you are breathing lead fumes, you are already in some trouble since this only occurs above its boiling point (1700ºC) which is why I suggested earlier you keep it away from direct solid fuels.

So to avoid problems when handling solid lead you just have to keep it off your skin because small particles can break off and while the very smallest can penetrate skin, the biggest issue is you'll end up transporting it into your mouth next time you eat (wear gloves and wash your hands).

When burning any substance you generate ash, small particles of matter you can ingest by breathing them in. So when you are smelting lead, the mechanism for lead to enter your body is particulate, not as a gas. Those particles may be generated by contaminants in or on the lead. A mask will form an effective barrier but fume extraction and/or working outdoors is the number 1 preventative measure. A mask would not protect you from lead gas for the reasons stated earlier (and it doesn't need to).

Lead in pipes and in solder joints can contaminate water as lead forms an alloy or toxic compound and leaches into the water. When using lead solder, the fumes are again largely toxic fumes generated by flux rather than lead itslef and soldering DOES NOT generate lead gas!!

Anyhow, it is dangerous stuff to be around so if anyone is nervous, leave it alone. But so are kitchen knives, fluorescent tubes and virtually any strong acid. Knowledge about the REAL dangers and therefore the correct safe handling procedure is the key issue. Making things up or repeating debunked wives tales is not helpful.

 

[graffian]

I used to melt lead for fishing weights in a bean tin over a fire in the garden in my younger days, before I knew better!

I used to make weights when at my nans. Tin on a coal fire.
I was an old hand at it by the time I was about 5, one day I was meting the lead in a tin and
the tin started to fall apart, clearly the old tin I had picked out was soldered.

Showed the kid next door how to make the weights, he decided to make the
mold from a potato, now idea if anyone got hurt but gather it spat the lead out.

I have to melt lead now and again. I gave up on melting in can years ago. well I would probably still
be using a can, but I happened to get a ladle a mates dad used to melt pitch, it could have been made for lead.

The mercury hat making thing was something to do with prepping the felt wasn't it?

 

[Screwdriver]

Some here may not be surprised to learn I used to make felt hats. Must've been about 12-14 I guess. Crappy facility on some industrial estate near where I lived. IIRC we would dunk or paint the felt with some white liquid (which I now guess would have been PVA), stick it between two hat shaped heated moulds after slathering them in lard and stand on a floor lever.

Hot horrible work badly paid but it was the 70's man and I needed a new skateboard. Gullwing trucks cost a weeks wages. Then the bloke running it had a new building thrown up and told us to go up on the roof and chop out some panels for ventilation. One look at the asbestos roof and I declined (!) shortly before getting fired...

 

[Screwdriver]

Don't heat lead in an enclosed space - the fumes are dangerous. Far better to do it outdoors to be on the safe side

 

[Onoff]

”mad as a hatter’ comes from pressing animal pelts with molten lead for hat making.

I always thought it was mercury poisoning that lead to the saying?

 

[Parm]

I always thought it was mercury poisoning that lead to the saying?

It is, I cleared up my mistake in post 27

 

[daleyd]

Is that wrong then, as according to the HSE it does, or at least can, produce fumes? In fact one of the high risk activities they mention is melting and casting.

 

[Screwdriver]

Is that wrong then, as according to the HSE it does, or at least can, produce fumes? In fact one of the high risk activities they mention is melting and casting.

No that’s not wrong, you should of course perform any such activity outside (as I said earlier) but the danger in using lead specifically is ingesting it from physical contact. The fumes produced by any smelting process can be dangerous and toxic.

So really while smelting and therefore generating any toxic fumes should always be outside and/or well ventilated while wearing a mask etc., the particular danger with lead is that of ingestion. That’s why you need to be more careful with grinding or abrading any lead containing product because it’s the dust and fine particles that get you.

You cannot produce lead gas easily during any smelting process unless you’re welding (where you could end up with a plasma!) or otherwise heating it beyond its boiling point. I am only reacting to the notion that “lead fumes” are the danger when the reality is the specific dangers of working with lead are quite different even though the typical safety precautions should also be followed during any process which produces any sort of fume.

 

[brightspark]

re melting
not smelting you smelt ore

 

[daleyd]

No that’s not wrong, you should of course perform any such activity outside (as I said earlier) but the danger in using lead specifically is ingesting it from physical contact. The fumes produced by any smelting process can be dangerous and toxic.

So really while smelting and therefore generating any toxic fumes should always be outside and/or well ventilated while wearing a mask etc., the particular danger with lead is that of ingestion. That’s why you need to be more careful with grinding or abrading any lead containing product because it’s the dust and fine particles that get you.

You cannot produce lead gas easily during any smelting process unless you’re welding (where you could end up with a plasma!) or otherwise heating it beyond its boiling point. I am only reacting to the notion that “lead fumes” are the danger when the reality is the specific dangers of working with lead are quite different even though the typical safety precautions should also be followed during any process which produces any sort of fume.

So the hse guidance that any activity where heating above 500 deg C can produce fumes and is considered a high risk is wrong? (Appreciate that advice is for workplace safety and not messing around at home…)

They state quite categorically that below 500 deg C isn’t really a problem but above is.

 

[Screwdriver]

Melting/smelting/felting (!) all the same to me; topic under discussion is the specific danger of working with lead.