Smart devices, WiFi, ZigBee help

[Ianb]

I have been reading up on smart devices, both WiFi and ZigBee.

From what I gather the devices only tend to work on 2.4ghz. To get around this with the BT router I have it seems you need to turn 5ghz off whilst connecting the devices. Can 5ghz be turned back on once they are connected without causing problems?

There seems to be a vast range of smart hubs available, many just appear to be the same item, and other more expensive hubs, apart from increased quality do the expensive hubs offer any increased functionality or facilities, plan on using the Tuya Smart Life app and only having a few devices to turn on exterior lighting to begin with.

Many thanks.

Many thanks.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I give the 5GHz and 2.4GHz networks different names...

 

[Ianb]

How does that work with other devices such as computers/phones connected to the WiFi, do you have to make a choice whether they are on 2.4 or 5ghz, if so does this limit their range/speed noticeably?

Do you use wi-fi,ZigBee or Z-wave? Do you have a whole smart house or just a few items?

 

[ajlelectronics]

How does that work with other devices such as computers/phones connected to the WiFi, do you have to make a choice whether they are on 2.4 or 5ghz, if so does this limit their range/speed noticeably?

The only difference is that you have to introduce your computers etc to both networks. Then you can rely on auto roaming or you can switch manually if you prefer. So for low band only devices, you choose which network to lock them to. There isn't a lot of difference, but a 5GHz signal will be faster throughput but shorter range.

I have lots of Alexa and Sonoff devices. The former go on the 5GHz network and the latter on the 2.4GHz network.

Do you use wi-fi,ZigBee or Z-wave? Do you have a whole smart house or just a few items?

I have lots of different devices, all under Alexa control. Light bulbs (RGB), wall switches, 13A sockets, thermostat etc.

 

[rikrobson]

I use wifi devices, which connect via my AP. that thas two networks. 2.4 and 5GHz. All the devices connect over the 2.4GHz network.

there is no need then for a "home hub", just an internet connection to make them work.

if you want ZigBee or Z-wave you will need a Home Hub device that the zigBees can connect to

 

[Ianb]

I use wifi devices, which connect via my AP. that thas two networks. 2.4 and 5GHz. All the devices connect over the 2.4GHz network.

there is no need then for a "home hub", just an internet connection to make them work.

if you want ZigBee or Z-wave you will need a Home Hub device that the zigBees can connect to

I like the idea of the hub and ZigBee devices, as I understand it each device acts as a repeater or mesh network (???) increasing the possible range.

If a wired smart hub is used and connected via ethernet cable to the router can all the 2.4 and 5ghz be forgotten about? Or doesn't it work like that? Apologies I only even knew these things existed a couple of days ago so it's all new to me.

 

[Ianb]

My plan is to have a couple of floodlights activated by a our sensor and a smart switch to override them and turn them on, is there any way to detect that they are on with some device to send an alert to me, I realise it could be done with a light sensor, but wondered if there was some kind of smart device that has a relay or voltage detection or similar operated by the lights power.

I have seen the all in one pir/lights, but I am wanting larger floodlights and flexibility in mounting the pirs.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I actively avoided anything that needs a hub and 95% of my devices are Sonoff branded. I cannot therefore give an opinion of Zigbee etc from experience.

 

[gaz1]

How does that work with other devices such as computers/phones connected to the WiFi, do you have to make a choice whether they are on 2.4 or 5ghz, if so does this limit their range/speed noticeably?

its slower but a better connection

other signals from different propertys reduce range or interfere

I like the idea of the hub and ZigBee devices, as I understand it each device acts as a repeater or mesh network (???) increasing the possible range.

If a wired smart hub is used and connected via ethernet cable to the router can all the 2.4 and 5ghz be forgotten about? Or doesn't it work like that? Apologies I only even knew these things existed a couple of days ago so it's all new to me.

as above

wired is far superior and faster direct is the prefered route

 

[Dev]

I like the idea of the hub and ZigBee devices, as I understand it each device acts as a repeater or mesh network (???) increasing the possible range.

If a wired smart hub is used and connected via ethernet cable to the router can all the 2.4 and 5ghz be forgotten about? Or doesn't it work like that? Apologies I only even knew these things existed a couple of days ago so it's all new to me.

zigbee and wifi are both on 2.4ghz but are very different. If you want to use both you need to make sure the channels for each dont overlap.
https://support.metageek.com/hc/en-us/articles/203845040-ZigBee-and-WiFi-Coexistence shows it well.

If you want to fall down the rabbit hole take a look at https://www.home-assistant.io/

 

[Ianb]

Thanks for the replies, this is more complicated than I thought!

 

[skotl]

...If you want to fall down the rabbit hole take a look at https://www.home-assistant.io/

And ESP8266's (and their myriad other versions). An Arduino-on-a-chip with built in wifi and multiple digital and analogue input/outputs, for less than a quid a shot when bought in semi-bulk from China (or slightly more expensively from Amazon or Ebay).
Everything ESP8266
WiFi Module - ESP8266 (4MB Flash) - WRL-17146 - SparkFun Electronics

 

[daedalusminos]

Thanks for the replies, this is more complicated than I thought!

It shouldn't be complicated!

I've got two 'smart' device systems:

The first is an old Lightwave system bought before Zigbee and Zwave took off - it uses their proprietry 433MHz protocol but comms is only one way - i.e. you're never sure the device has turned on/off. I have outside lights on 2 off 3way relay modules and several power sockets (one is used to switch the heating on/off). I intend to fully replace this system - it's not 100% reliable, the remotes are crap and even though the company still exists modules are now very expensive (though the system might have been revamped - can't imagine they'd get away with one-way comms these days.

The second system is SmartThings - now owned by Samsung.mThe real attraction of this is that the hub supports Zwave, Zigbees, WiFi - not sure about bluetooth and the idea is that you can readily mix and match devices seamlessly. I have both Zwave (mostly) and Zigbee devices in the network working with no problems. Zigbee and Zwave opens up the possibility of battery powered devices which typically have runtimes of 6mo to 2yrs. As you point out, if the device is mains powered it will create a mesh network and act as a range booster - I use this in the garage with the lighting relays providing a network for a smart sensor (reporting temp, humidity and also acting as a movement detector). Smartthings integrates with Alexa and Google.

Zigbee and Zwave devices tend to start at about £50 each - I have 2 off 2way Zwave relay modules controlling the lights inside and outside the garage (these module also have a hardwire control input from the switch), I also have the battery powered sensor in the garage so lights come on (and Sonos speaker plays) when I go in and switch off after 10mins if no movement detected. I'll get a notification if humidity is high enough to start condensing or temp goes below freezing.

 

[Dev]

ZWAVE is expensive only because of licensing, which is a racket. zigbee used to be just as bad but now you can get an ikea zigbee bulb for £10 and a wireless button to control it (or anything else) for £6. Even Lidl do zigbee stuff now and again. There are also more players in the market for zigbee, even a UK double wall socket has appeared.

I picked up a colour led strip the last time lidl had them and control it using an ikea shortcut button - short press is on, red, 10% brightness for getting up without waking ‘er indoors, long press is on warm white 100%.

 

[carbon]

My plan is to have a couple of floodlights activated by a our sensor and a smart switch to override them and turn them on, is there any way to detect that they are on with some device to send an alert to me, I realise it could be done with a light sensor, but wondered if there was some kind of smart device that has a relay or voltage detection or similar operated by the lights power.

I got fed up with pir sensor's false triggering during the night. I now have home assistant running and an outside light that only is on when I get home in the dark. The light is switched with a tasmotised sonoff which has manual control and also can be switched from my phone. I don't use the feature but home assistant can send alerts to your phone.

 

[Ianb]

Will an ethernet wired smart hub directly into the router do away with the need to set the router to 2.4ghz?

I will have a read up on Home Assistant, I wasn't aware of it. Is it beginner friendly or aimed more at people who know what they are doing?

 

[ajlelectronics]

Will an ethernet wired smart hub directly into the router do away with the need to set the router to 2.4ghz?

You don't set the router to 2.4GHz, it is already broadcasting both bands. Just change the the 2.4 and 5GHz bands to have different names and that's the job done.. When you come to set up a device, you just tell it the SSID that belongs to the 2.4GHz output of the router.

 

[carbon]

I will have a read up on Home Assistant, I wasn't aware of it. Is it beginner friendly or aimed more at people who know what they are doing?

It’s now more user friendly than it was. Lots of add on’s to cover lots of device’s

 

[Dev]

You don't set the router to 2.4GHz, it is already broadcasting both bands. Just change the the 2.4 and 5GHz bands to have different names and that's the job done.. When you come to set up a device, you just tell it the SSID that belongs to the 2.4GHz output of the router.

Not even sure you need to do that. The devices that don’t support 5ghz simply won’t see it.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Not even sure you need to do that. The devices that don’t support 5ghz simply won’t see it.

That is a point of course. I always have my networks separated so I haven't tested the theory but I can see that you are probably quite correct.