Stone spiral staircase handrail help

[dan.taylor.1]

Hi folks,

A local church that I've done a bit of work for, and have some further work to do want me to quote for a handrail to fit I to the stone spiral stair of the churches spire. It's very narrow, maybe 600mm steps, and steep too. The walls are a lime mortared stone mix, the steps and central spine are sandstone.

I've never done a spiral rail, nor one in somewhere as confined as this. Have any of you done similar, I'm thinking maybe rope and brackets is the way to go. Or something on the spine but I'm worried about weakening it with loads of fixing holes.

As always, any help or advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Dan

 

[Brad93]

Rope and brackets more traditional.

If the stairwell is a fairly even size all the way up then have the handrails curved into a helix in short sections and weld or butt together with a lap joint & hot rivet.

I'd then set the brackets into the walls with proper Fischer resin, speak to one of their application specialists. That will give you a construction joint between the mortar/stone of the walls and ensure no loss of strength to the structure.

 

[Munkul]

Just one handrail around the outsides?

I was gonna say, resin IS the way to go in suspect surfaces, brad beat me to it.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Resin is pretty much all I use as a fixing nowadays, expanding fixings have given me too much trouble.

I think they're just wanting one rail of some description, whether it be on the outside or inside.

 

[Brad93]

Hot rivet or cold copper rivet

 

[gaz1]

4 ways im aware of

rope but not good enough

rope with internal bar used more as a stiffener

both of these can be formed on site same as the one above

round bar

then square bar

 

[Barking Mat]

My friend produced a dozen spiral staircases, I asked him how he did the handrail, as I've always pondered how to do this, he slit the tube every x centimetres, dependant on staircase diameter, and reckons it's the only way to do it.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

4 ways im aware of

rope but not good enough

rope with internal bar used more as a stiffener

both of these can be formed on site same as the one above

round bar

then square bar

View attachment 313031View attachment 313032

View attachment 313033

That's what I'd like to do, but the walls in this tower are rubbish, it's random bits of stone with crumbly lime mortar between. No nice stone blocks here unfortunately.

 

[gaz1]

you make a u channel rail holder

2 points fasten into the wall and use an eye bolt for the bar / rope

stops downward pull out of the rail

red is the wall 2 points of the hand rail fasten inside of the wall

you dont see these much but you do find them on old handrails or holding old wood gutters up

used to stop the pull out on bad walls

 

[Migmac]

I sure if Kent was about he could give you very sound advice on the best way to approach this job. Ping him a pm on his fabrication site https://www.bowlandfabrications.co.uk/

 

[dan.taylor.1]

I sure if Kent was about he could give you very sound advice on the best way to approach this job. Ping him a pm on his fabrication site https://www.bowlandfabrications.co.uk/

I've got him on Facebook and think I've got his mobile. shall drop him a message.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

you make a u channel rail holder

2 points fasten into the wall and use an eye bolt for the bar / rope

stops downward pull out of the rail

red is the wall 2 points of the hand rail fasten inside of the wall

you dont see these much but you do find them on old handrails or holding old wood gutters up

used to stop the pull out on bad walls

View attachment 313037

does the rail attach to the small vertical bit then?

 

[gaz1]

does the rail attach to the small vertical bit then?

redrawn for you this is how some was done on bad walls where you couldnt get a good fastening

ive drawn all 3 methods for you

the left one is for jointing metal or wood handrails

middle one is for the round bar method

the right one is the old wood gutter where drilling at high points dont work as all it does is losen the top stones bricks a screw was screwed from the outside and into the bottem of the wood gutter

you dont see any of these nowadays as most are done with 3 screws or just one bar going into the wall

but on bad walls a different method is needed

these take the weight in downward force therefore with 2 points stops the pull out just needs 2 drill holes and filed with being just a bar push it in and level it straight

the t bar is screwed underneath whilst the round bar can be fasten after threading of the bar

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Cheers gaz, useful info

 

[James1979]

What does part k say? Or does that not apply to old buildings?

 

[Munkul]

It'll tell you the height you need to install the handrail relative to the steps. It won't tell you how do do it though.

 

[James1979]

It'll tell you the height you need to install the handrail relative to the steps. It won't tell you how do do it though.

Ok. Wondered if it gave a method of what the rail is made from / some sort of standard.

Not near laptop so can’t look.

 

[gaz1]

if you wanted to buy some

or a design to use heres a few

but a 2 bar is ample enough

2nd pic is used more in churches

 

[Hitch]

Make a series of loose brackets, roll some sections of round bar to the relevant diameter... fix brackets to the wall with resin, then weld on the rail on site... 16mm round will easily adjust on site if need be. Wouldn't be too bad on a reasonably decent radius.


In my experience of jobs like this, make the brackets with a good length of stud on the back..500mm+, easy to trim down, and get plenty or resin in. The wire mesh sleeves are handy too should you end up with fixings in a void.
A 300mm drill bit will soon disappear in an old wall with nothing solid. Obviously depends on the wall thickness etc...

Keep the bracket simple, a 12mm bent bar, with a long stud on the back to resin into the wall, and a little backplate for tidiness, say a 40mm disc, that can be grouted around. Anything big wont sit nicely.
Spiral rails aren't anything to be scared of, especially done out of round bar.

Tack 2/3 bits together side by side and feed through the rolls at the pitch angle, and correct radius. Tacking together stops them twisting as they roll.

 

[Hitch]

My friend produced a dozen spiral staircases, I asked him how he did the handrail, as I've always pondered how to do this, he slit the tube every x centimetres, dependant on staircase diameter, and reckons it's the only way to do it.

Bet that looked real nice
Just roll it or get it rolled.