Got some sparky`s out at last.

[W.olly]

So after the faffing about with looking at just a consumer unit to be fitted at home we got three different diagnosis after me not trusting any bugger first time.

First being, Cant fit the CU as the house needs rewire after he checked the circuits. It also need an isloation fitting before CU and the earth is damaged. He doesnt do them so gave our details to another chap. He hasnt been in touch yet. No readings given. How yes, he needs a rewire as otherwise the new CU will keep tripping

Second said, he can do a rewire or just a CU fitting. He didnt check the circuits or anything.

Called the folks to repair the earth connection who is the grid maintenance folk . They said we dont HAVE to have an isolation switch. and the earth was just green and not damaged but still redid it for us and fitted a new connector thing before the CU. Also gave us a Isolation switch if we wanted to bet it fitted by a sparky.

So who the heck would you believe.

Surely electrics must have just one code to go by.

 

[jimbo84]

The isolator they are talking about will be to turn off the supply so a new CU can be fitted. To work safely and isolate the supply you can pull the fuse yourself (not supposed to) get the DNO to pull the fuse (ballache) or get an isolator fitted which is chargeable depending on the DNO/supply company, these two will argue as to whose job that is.

Can't comment on any other info as not able to see/test it. I'd be inclined to believe the ones who have done some testing.

Usual process is to carry out an EICR to establish the condition of the install then do the remedials if there are any then do the CU swap. Yes it's more expensive but the only way to do it properly.

DNO work to ESQCR (this is law) and sparks work to BS7671 (not law but if you don't follow it you're a muppet).

 

[sparkysy]

I don't blame your lack of trust one bit! Your electrician if you asked for an inspection should have given you a test report called an Electrical installation conditioning report.
At least then you would have some idea of what is wrong with the existing and could make an informed decision as to weather a full rewire is needed. Or you could post the report on here for us to look at ( obviously with all personal and contractors details redacted)
I would not let anything happen till you have a proper report in your hands!
Sy

 

[Dave-sparks]

Usual process is to carry out an EICR to establish the condition of the install then do the remedials if there are any then do the CU swap. Yes it's more expensive but the only way to do it properly.

This is not 'usual process'. An EICR is carried out if the customer wants it done, it is not a necessary prerequisite for replacing a CU.

Yes the electrician needs to satisfy themselves that the installation is in suitable condition to work on, and inform the customer of any problems, but there is no need to charge a customer for a full blown EICR before doing the job.

 

[brightspark]

iThis is not 'usual process'. An EICR is carried out if the customer wants it done, it is not a necessary prerequisite for replacing a CU.

Yes the electrician needs to satisfy themselves that the installation is in suitable condition to work on, and inform the customer of any problems, but there is no need to charge a customer for a full blown EICR before doing the job.

correct but the electrician would give set callout charge for the 1st hour and an hourly rate after that for testing then give a remedial price for work needed

 

[Kayos]

I did the Mocopa training to be allowed to pull and refit the cutout fuse. Had to be assessed as northern power grid hq.

Wasn't difficult, no idea why sparkies don't just get qualified?

 

[jimbo84]

This is not 'usual process'. An EICR is carried out if the customer wants it done, it is not a necessary prerequisite for replacing a CU.

Yes the electrician needs to satisfy themselves that the installation is in suitable condition to work on, and inform the customer of any problems, but there is no need to charge a customer for a full blown EICR before doing the job.

In a domestic install satisfying myself that I'd be happy to upgrade a CU without any surprises for the customer I'd be 75% on the way to a full blown EICR anyway, might as well crack on and give them the EICR. Never had any complaints doing it this way and there is no sting in the tail for the customer when you're committed but start having to tell them that you've found X Y and Z at fault and they need to stump up to sort it.

EDIT: and it also stops the faff that the OP is currently going through.

 

[jimbo84]

I did the Mocopa training to be allowed to pull and refit the cutout fuse. Had to be assessed as northern power grid hq.

Wasn't difficult, no idea why sparkies don't just get qualified?

The general consensus is that why should we have to do yet another course to do something that we're already more than qualified to safely do.

 

[Dave-sparks]

Called the folks to repair the earth connection who is the grid maintenance folk . They said we dont HAVE to have an isolation switch. and the earth was just green and not damaged but still redid it for us and fitted a new connector thing before the CU. Also gave us a Isolation switch if we wanted to bet it fitted by a sparky.

The lazy sods should have fitted the isolator for you, not just handed it over for someone else to fit. But don't complain if you got the isolator for free as it's normally chargeable.

Technically an electrician is not allowed to pull the fuse and isolate the supply to fit that isolator. The whole point of having that isolator fitted is so that an electrician can work on the installation without having to pull the suppliers fuse.
But having said that most of us will be happy to do it anyway if the suppliers cutout is in good condition and of the modern type.


As for the electricians, generally it is not possible to establish whether a rewire is necessary or not without some serious inspection and testing.
It is only really if an installation is so old that it still has rubber insulated cable in any of its various forms that a rewire is automatically required.

If someone tells you that the 'CU will start tripping' if you don't have a rewire ask them to explain why it will trip. Chances are they won't be able to give a sensible answer.
Also ask them why they can't just repair the faults which they have identified which would cause the tripping.

 

[sparkysy]

I don't want to start an argument but how can you sign off an installation certificate for a new consumer unit without a proper test! And there will probably be things that would comply until you change the unit, after that they will no longer comply and need remedial action.
@W.olly
Depending on how big and how many circuits your property has will all have an effect on the price of an inspection. Unfortunately now a days finding someone competent enough to carry out such a task is proving to be a pain in the ****! As you are finding!

 

[brightspark]

I did the Mocopa training to be allowed to pull and refit the cutout fuse. Had to be assessed as northern power grid hq.

Wasn't difficult, no idea why sparkies don't just get qualified?

i just pull them or conect the tails in new db live no one cares havent the time to mess on getting them out

 

[Dave-sparks]

The general consensus is that why should we have to do yet another course to do something that we're already more than qualified to safely do.

But we aren't normally qualified to pull cutout fuses, that isn't usually part of an electrician's training.

 

[sparkysy]

Some DNO's will let you pull cut outs if you are registered with a scheme.

 

[mtt.tr]

I personally wouldn't entertain a cu swap if they won't have me do an eicr beforehand


Sod thinking you are finished the install to test and find loads of issues at 5pm

I'm eicr, remedial then cu

 

[Dave-sparks]

I don't want to start an argument but how can you sign off an installation certificate for a new consumer unit without a proper test! And there will probably be things that would comply until you change the unit, after that they will no longer comply

You can't, and I'm not suggesting you can, but certification requires inspection and testing after the work has been carried out, not before.

If it complies before changing the CU then it complies after changing it.

 

[Dave-sparks]

I personally wouldn't entertain a cu swap if they won't have me do an eicr beforehand


Sod thinking you are finished the install to test and find loads of issues at 5pm

I'm eicr, remedial then cu

I will test before replacing the CU, but I won't do a full blown EICR.

 

[Robotstar5]

If someone tells you that the 'CU will start tripping' if you don't have a rewire ask them to explain why it will trip. Chances are they won't be able to give a sensible answer.
Also ask them why they can't just repair the faults which they have identified which would cause the tripping.

Borrowed neutral on lighting circuits?

 

[Dave-sparks]

Borrowed neutral on lighting circuits?

Yeah, that will cause some tripping.
But it's not a reason for a complete rewire, that should only need one or two new cables installed at worst.

 

[brightspark]

Borrowed neutral on lighting circuits?

yup loads of them mainly on councill houses the prick that rewired my house before i got it had done it .most faults are a cable break on a ringmain or a neutral to earth fault trapped wire in socket box

 

[mtt.tr]

Yeah, that will cause some tripping.
But it's not a reason for a complete rewire, that should only need one or two new cables installed at worst.

Customers love coming home to a chased hallway and landing.

After all it's just a couple of wires, plastering and redecorating.

I always turn around and say "it's just a couple of wires".