Charnwood multifuel stove

[Bsmith]

Had a prob the other day with the above, the boiler started leaking water out onto the hearth. Turned the water supply off and drained it down, cleaned up and phoned the building insurance. Although the insurance does actually cover fixed heating appliances, they said no help as the stove is more than 10 years old and it is suffering from 'wear and tear'. I had actually thought they would help me a bit with the price of a new one. Anyway, sick as a parrot and after telling the mrs to cancel the direct debits to the insurance, I started to examine the boiler with a scraper, wire brush and chipping hammer, I had soon managed to knock a hole through the weak eaten part. I dented in the thin edges and found that the surrounding area was'nt so bad, so I brought in the IFL and 4" angle grinder, I found that I could do 4 sucessful welds in about a 3" square around the hole with 2mm 6013s then starting at the back vertical weld and stopping at the front v weld I slowly built up from the bottom, after quite a few rods and bit of grinding I have a reasonable sound boiler again, none the worse of its clean up of course, and heating the radiators fine again. Just wonder why it was eaten through in only 1 place? I checked where I could and can't find other bad spots on it.

 

[the snooper]

could have been a flaw in the production

 

[Bsmith]

could have been a flaw in the production

Aha, that could well be. It is quite old and done a lot of heating, the bars in the bottom that let the ash through are getting quite eaten too, need to get some rebar to make some new ones.

 

[the snooper]

is it cast ?

 

[Bsmith]

The boiler is M/S. The original bars were cast iron, I replaced a few of them before with rebar about 7/8" thick with the ends turned down to 1/2" to fit in the slots, could just weld 1/2" bolts on the ends. The rebar dos'nt last but I think I have some off-cuts so am ok.

 

[the snooper]

nice and easy to repair then in m/s you can keep if going forever

 

[pedrobedro]

Does it say in your policy that they will not insure appliances older than 10 years ? Tell them you are seeking legal advice, they take your money happily enough and should be held to their end of the deal when something goes wrong.

 

[Bsmith]

I was fortunate in where the boiler went through on this occasion, it was handy enough for me to 'get at' and repair while lying on my side on the floor. I would like to make a new and heavier boiler for it but it would cause so much disruption taking the stove out and I would hate to disturb all those elderly plumbing fittings.

 

[the snooper]

i would think a job for the summer.
you know the saying a stitch in time saves nine.
dont wait until next winter it may go again but alot worse its sods law

 

[Bsmith]

Does it say in your policy that they will not insure appliances older than 10 years ? Tell them you are seeking legal advice, they take your money happily enough and should be held to their end of the deal when something goes wrong.

Guess what? I lit the bloody fire with it when I was finished the repair. I'm almost certain it did'nt have any item age limit. Yes indeed they were keen to take my money and once when the bank account ran low and they did'nt get their monthly payment they very quickly let me know. I had to post them a cheque to keep them happy. That only happend once and a long time ago, I have been fair enough with them.

 

[the snooper]

tell them you lost it ask for another to be posted out to you

 

[Bsmith]

i would think a job for the summer.
you know the saying a stitch in time saves nine.
dont wait until next winter it may go again but alot worse its sods law

Yea I think your right, meantime I'll put it on the todo list. Thanks.

 

[Bsmith]

tell them you lost it ask for another to be posted out to you

Thanks again but, I'm so sick with them that I would prefer to tell them to either roll it round or fold it square and stick it in their ****. If I got help from them it would still mean the hassle of removing the old and fitting a new stove plus I would have to pay the first £150. I think I could make a better boiler cheaper.
It may be in the small print somewhere that they don't insure for wear and tear.

 

[Sam]

Had a prob the other day with the above, the boiler started leaking water out onto the hearth. Turned the water supply off and drained it down, cleaned up and phoned the building insurance. Although the insurance does actually cover fixed heating appliances, they said no help as the stove is more than 10 years old and it is suffering from 'wear and tear'. I had actually thought they would help me a bit with the price of a new one. Anyway, sick as a parrot and after telling the mrs to cancel the direct debits to the insurance, I started to examine the boiler with a scraper, wire brush and chipping hammer, I had soon managed to knock a hole through the weak eaten part. I dented in the thin edges and found that the surrounding area was'nt so bad, so I brought in the IFL and 4" angle grinder, I found that I could do 4 sucessful welds in about a 3" square around the hole with 2mm 6013s then starting at the back vertical weld and stopping at the front v weld I slowly built up from the bottom, after quite a few rods and bit of grinding I have a reasonable sound boiler again, none the worse of its clean up of course, and heating the radiators fine again. Just wonder why it was eaten through in only 1 place? I checked where I could and can't find other bad spots on it.

The problem with charnwood stoves and others is the boiler forms the main part of the stove and cannot be replaced the likes of Morso they have a boiler that can be removed and replaced which I have done with mine made a new boiler from 3mm 316 stainless have seen older stoves with copper boilers fitted. The most common reason for stoves failing is using non seasoned wood and the condensation rots the stove. Stack soft wood cut for one year hard wood for two.Reflecting on that comment that wont be your problem on Orkney you wont get much wood to burn maybe your peat was not dry enough. My mate used to have a wood burning stove shop he recond on 10 years for a mild steel boiler was a fair life span.

 

[Bsmith]

Thanks Sam, Yes it all boiler and just a few enameled parts at the front and cast iron doors, but I think a fellow of my kinda breed might manage to make a copy of it if I get it out of there, need some new front pannels too but I could maybe strech to buying them. Heres a pic after I got it going and cleaned up? well a bit. I know some will think by looking at the pic that its just stood there but it actually go's back into the wall about a further 2 feet, then its all covered with a heatproof refractory, which has cracked too

 

[Biscayne]

Had the same thing happen on a Hunter Midi14 a few years back. Stove supplier pointed out that the leak was where the return water flow was. The cooler water entering the stove caused a 'cold spot' in the firebox where water condensed, and acid formed from the combustion gasses. This eventually etched it's way through the metal.

He suggested a device that would not allow the circulating pump to run if the return water temperature fell below a certain temperature. He wanted £100 for one but I did a few temperature measurements on the stove and decided that it would make getting the system running from cold a right pain, as the pump would keep switching off.

I came up with a system of switching on the radiators progressively instead. Seems to be working, as the Charnwood CW50B that replaced the Hunter is now 15 years old.

I think I read somewhere that the newer stoves come with these systems fitted.

 

[Sam]

He suggested a device that would not allow the circulating pump to run if the return water temperature fell below a certain temperature. He wanted £100 for one

Sounds like a pipe stat!

 

[MrFluffy]

Its a dedicated valve to stop the circulation below a set temperature so that the period that the boiler runs cold and suffers the corrosive creasoting is vastly reduced.
My wood furnace has some electrical control that wont turn the circulation pumps on till 45degC is in the water chambers for this reason.
Esbe do a mechanical one :-
http://www.esbe.se/nav5174/?prodid=4033

As it goes the furnace (hs tarm) is also mild steel, they used 5mm plate so its a heavy old thing, but its not uncommon apparently to find a rusted through spot on a secondhand one due to bad installs or persistant leaking pipes, and the cure is to chop out the bad bit and weld in some fresh platework. Which works out considerably cheaper than a new boiler and lifting equipment.

It runs at 15psi so becomes a weldment on a pressure vessel, so if you run under pressure bear in mind it becomes so with possible messey complications...