MOD acquires Forgemasters

[Gragson]

Might be small beer in the scheme of things but hope it sets off a trend in controlling certain infrastructure

Sheffield Forgemasters: Ministry of Defence to acquire steel firm

Sheffield Forgemasters will see up to £400m of investment in the next decade, the government says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Richiew]

So we had the "peace dividend" and now we have the "Sabre Rattling" dividend. About time government took a look at industry. Cant wage war with service industry and call centres only. Makes you wonder what is coming.

 

[GRW]

They say that what won WWII was ultimately the American Manufacturing Capacity above all else....and you cannot purchase and import that in a conflict.

Mind you, the Govt's and then the Military OF that Govt react according to the dictates of the wealthy Corps and Cartels ultimately, not the wishes of the Electorate they allegedly represent and protect... so its all smoke and mirrors anyway

 

[DAPPH]

They say that what won WWII was ultimately the American Manufacturing Capacity above all else....and you cannot purchase and import that in a conflict.

Mind you, the Govt's and then the Military OF that Govt react according to the dictates of the wealthy Corps and Cartels ultimately, not the wishes of the Electorate they allegedly represent and protect... so its all smoke and mirrors anyway

After watching all the Discovery " War Factories programmes " and numerous other WW2 related industrial output programmes over the years I think it was more to do with the USA government actually paying free enterprise to make what the armed forced needed /asked for and to also invent new products for war . Where as the Axis forces ran their factories into the ground by conscripting all the engineers & machinists as cannon fodder early on in WW2 and using semi / unskilled forced/ slave labour to make their cosy Nazi party ordained stuff .


One of my now deceased friends Ted Hunt did a lot the design & testing work on turning the 25 pounder field gun from being made up of several of heavy forgings & turn it into a step by step assembly line using prefabricated welded building blocks using easily made parts that could be made & assembled in cow sheds if needed .( Ted's words )


The output of the USA rose not only because the yanks were patriotic but because the more products they made that passed muster for war use the more money the workers & factory owners/share holders also earnt. Turning a lot of their automotive producing factories over to production line mass production of war line materials also helped as did the fact that they weren't being bombed / shelled night & day

 

[frank horton]

they are all fools but lets hope the commies dont get back in and mess it up again....

 

[GRW]

After watching all the Discovery " War Factories programmes " and numerous other WW2 related industrial output programmes over the years I think it was more to do with the USA government actually paying free enterprise to make what the armed forced needed /asked for and to also invent new products for war . Where as the Axis forces ran their factories into the ground by conscripting all the engineers & machinists as cannon fodder early on in WW2 and using semi / unskilled forced/ slave labour to make their cosy Nazi party ordained stuff .


One of my now deceased friends Ted Hunt did a lot the design & testing work on turning the 25 pounder field gun from being made up of several of heavy forgings & turn it into a step by step assembly line using prefabricated welded building blocks using easily made parts that could be made & assembled in cow sheds if needed .( Ted's words )


The output of the USA rose not only because the yanks were patriotic but because the more products they made that passed muster for war use the more money the workers & factory owners/share holders also earnt. Turning a lot of their automotive producing factories over to production line mass production of war line materials also helped as did the fact that they weren't being bombed / shelled night & day

However it was facilitated - the key point is that the USA had the infrastructure and capability within their own Country TO manufacture enough machines of war and munitions, transport etc to wage that war and emerge on the winning side.
(The UK were on the winning side too, but it took the UK about 60-YEARS to settle the bill for all the materials supplied to our war effort by the USA, not to mention all the other costs/losses incurred to do so).

The UK has diminished in its capacity to produce just about anything (due to a variety of issues over several decades) - so that it is dependent upon Imports for even the basics like food, let alone anything else. The Covid Crisis brought that message home to even the thickest Politicians.

The expectation among people now is that there will be no more War in the modern age (at least upon the soil of the "developed" nations) - so Defence and manufacturing aren't seen as important. They see cheap as important. However, that does not mean there will never be another war. There's nothing like a good war for stimulating Sales and stirring up the Economy (he said cynically), while you cannot apply logic to loonies like the Trumps and Putin's of this world either (or the jingoistic stupidity of the man-on-the-street to invest in their lunacy either.

"Civilization is two meals and twenty-four hours away from barbarism" is a superb and scarily accurate statement. You'll quickly see how "evolved" we truly aren't the moment there's a hint that there might be shortages (witness people fighting over toilet rolls in supermarket aisles etc).

The moment it comes down to "I can watch my kids starve, or I can steal your food and watch yours starve first" - then the true nature/face of (general) humanity comes to the fore.

We aren't truly evolved. We are just comfortable enough that we don't feel the need to club someone else over the head for a meal

 

[ronan]

They say that what won WWII was ultimately the American Manufacturing Capacity above all else....and you cannot purchase and import that in a conflict.

Mind you, the Govt's and then the Military OF that Govt react according to the dictates of the wealthy Corps and Cartels ultimately, not the wishes of the Electorate they allegedly represent and protect... so its all smoke and mirrors anyway

Possibly, but probably more to do with the Russians who sacrificied millions of their own to beat the Germans back across Russia and eastern Europe.

 

[ronan]

The worry i think now is, once the Chinese invest in a company, they spy on everyone involved. With things like power plants, which i hear the Chinese are involved with in the UK, they can cut the power off if there was any argument between the UK and themselves. Not to be trusted that lot.

 

[GRW]

Possibly, but probably more to do with the Russians who sacrificied millions of their own to beat the Germans back across Russia and eastern Europe.

If one was being cynical, one could say that the Americans used the massed resources that they had at their disposal.....
..... and so did the Russians.

 

[ronan]

If one was being cynical, one could say that the Americans used the massed resources that they had at their disposal.....
..... and so did the Russians.

Joe Stalin wasn't noted for his cuddly humanist qualities, him and old Adolf were two sides of the one coin.

 

[Stueeee]

Joe Stalin wasn't noted for his cuddly humanist qualities, him and old Adolf were two sides of the one coin.

So true, here's one of Josef's zingers:

"One death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic". First attributed to Stalin in the form ‘If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that’s only statistics’ in Washington Post 20 January 1947

 

[Ross365]

If one was being cynical, one could say that the Americans used the massed resources that they had at their disposal
..... and so did the Russians.

Or, the Americans used the massed resources that they had at their disposal - the Russians.
I think Allied losses on WWII were about 30 time less than the Soviets, but of course, Stalin killed quite a lot of his own.

 

[GRW]

Or, the Americans used the massed resources that they had at their disposal - the Russians.
I think Allied losses on WWII were about 30 time less than the Soviets, but of course, Stalin killed quite a lot of his own.

Yep, machine gunners positioned behind the advancing Russian Troops tended to provide the necessary motivation to have the Comrades die fighting the opposition rather than die trying to fall back.

(Mind you - seeing as in WWI the British chose not to issue parachutes to RFC Pilots in case having them "compromised their fighting spirit" [or something like that].... then we can't say much either eh ?)

 

[ronan]

Or, the Americans used the massed resources that they had at their disposal - the Russians.
I think Allied losses on WWII were about 30 time less than the Soviets, but of course, Stalin killed quite a lot of his own.

Stalin purged the military officers in the 1930's, afraid one might move the army against him. When the war broke out the people who replaced the officers hadn't a clue what they were doing and were easy meat for the Germans. He did the same with the Polish army too. A mass grave being found that contained the bodies of 5,000 polish military.

I used to throw things like that at a twit i worked with who was an avowed Marxist/communist. He didn't like it.

 

[daleyd]

Stalin purged the military officers in the 1930's, afraid one might move the army against him. When the war broke out the people who replaced the officers hadn't a clue what they were doing and were easy meat for the Germans. He did the same with the Polish army too. A mass grave being found that contained the bodies of 5,000 polish military.

I used to throw things like that at a twit i worked with who was an avowed Marxist/communist. He didn't like it.

Was actually watching “ww2 behind closed doors” last night which details the way they invaded the east part of Poland during the early part of the war

 

[ronan]

Yep, machine gunners positioned behind the advancing Russian Troops tended to provide the necessary motivation to have the Comrades die fighting the opposition rather than die trying to fall back.

(Mind you - seeing as in WWI the British chose not to issue parachutes to RFC Pilots in case having them "compromised their fighting spirit" [or something like that].... then we can't say much either eh ?)

Stalin also had any Russian soldiers who were captured by the Germans, and released at wars end, arrested and tortured, as he claimed many of them would be spys for the west. Imagine being subject to the torments of a nazi concentration camp, then arrested by your own side and treated even worse, imprisoned and tortured, when you were innocent.

 

[Ross365]

Anyway....back to Forgemasters. I cannot remember the last time a Tory government nationalised something, and while it comes as a surprise, there have been signs around for sometime that the Government will do whatever is necessary to keep the submarine reactors bit of Rolls Royce going. That being so, protecting Forgemasters is all part of ensuring that we can make nuclear boats. I wonder what other parts of the jigsaw puzzle will fall in to place?

 

[mike os]

About time

 

[Munkul]

Good. The alternative was going to be Chinese money after all.
Hopefully ploughing some investment back in, and some smart management, will return the Forgemasters name back to the king of the hill!