Has van design gone to far?

[merryman]

Vauxhall were General Motors from about 1926 until a couple of years ago, when they were sold to Peugeot/Citroen. judging by what Peugeot did to the Rootes group when they bought that, this does not bode well for Vauxhall.

In my opinion, car/van design peaked about 20 years ago, since then engines have improved in fuel consumption and power output but the complex nature of all the emissions stuff has reduced reliability, and the modern idea that everything should be electrical/electronic and controlled by the CPU computer has made this far worse.

 

[Edward Teach]

Vauxhall were General Motors from about 1926 until a couple of years ago, when they were sold to Peugeot/Citroen. judging by what Peugeot did to the Rootes group when they bought that, this does not bode well for Vauxhall.

In my opinion, car/van design peaked about 20 years ago, since then engines have improved in fuel consumption and power output but the complex nature of all the emissions stuff has reduced reliability, and the modern idea that everything should be electrical/electronic and controlled by the CPU computer has made this far worse.

So what has happened to the Renault/Vauxhall/Nissan,

 

[Blobber]

So what has happened to the Renault/Vauxhall/Nissan,

The Renault van was built under license by Vauxhall in Luton and badged up as a Vauxhall,Opel,Renault or Nissan
When Vauxhall/Opel was bought by Peugeot 18months or so ago the Renault was obviously ditched and Vauxhall now build the Peugeot Expert badged up to suit
To say they had a few teething problems with the re-badged Expert would be an understatement

 

[Red'n'Black]

In my opinion, car/van design peaked about 20 years ago, since then engines have improved in fuel consumption and power output but the complex nature of all the emissions stuff has reduced reliability, and the modern idea that everything should be electrical/electronic and controlled by the CPU computer has made this far worse.

I'm a bit conflicted on this one.

I don't miss points, distributors and not knowing if the thing is going to start on a winter's morning.
I don't miss carb icing and sputtering to a halt on the hard shoulder on the same spot of the M5 every damp morning.
I don't miss replacing sills every year to get it through the MoT, and scrapping it due to terminal rust at 10 years.
I don't miss the smell of unburnt fuel in the air.
I don't miss engines being worn out after 80K miles and needing a complete rebuild.

I do miss being able to do basic tasks like change discs and pads without needing £££ of diagnostic kit to (e.g.) tell the electric handbrake gubbins that it needs to re-adjust itself.
I do miss cars that trust the driver to know what they're doing. The designer of Mrs RnB's C4 had an obsession with preserving the battery at all costs, engine has to be running for just about anything electrical to work.
I do miss having a proper spare wheel instead of the joke of a cheap 12V compressor and a bottle of slime.

Most of the above seem to be further steps along the road of "ordinary people can't be trusted with this stuff, leave it to a specialist"

Now you kids get off my lawn!

 

[Barking Mat]

Vauxhall were General Motors from about 1926 until a couple of years ago, when they were sold to Peugeot/Citroen. judging by what Peugeot did to the Rootes group when they bought that, this does not bode well for Vauxhall.

In my opinion, car/van design peaked about 20 years ago, since then engines have improved in fuel consumption and power output but the complex nature of all the emissions stuff has reduced reliability, and the modern idea that everything should be electrical/electronic and controlled by the CPU computer has made this far worse.

Chrysler bought the Rootes group.

Stopping the development of the TS4.

 

[Kayos]

My current Transit Custom has 170bhp, does 40mpg, is as comfortable as any modern car, and has now done over 60k with only two services and a couple minor issues.

I'm sure you'll be old enough to remember city centres turning black due to diesel soot, lack of fresh air due to non-catalyst petrol engines vehicles, vehicles that needed serviced every 5-10k, and vehicle engines that rarely reached 100k without needing a major overhaul. It's surprising what rose tinted glasses make people forget.

Couldn't agree more, for as much as I despise my vw caddy, with its stupid flat bottom steering wheel.
It never fails to start and I regularly do 3 and 4 hour journeys in as much comfort as a modern car, while getting 50+ mpg

 

[Robbie260]

Ditto the mk4 golf. Indestructible. I used to look after forestry kit for one customer. Complete tosser. He could wreck anything. Seriously. Pickups, plant, everything. The one thing he could not destroy was mk4 golfs. He had a few as he’d ruin the innards but never killed one.

This **** had a leaky fuel can in his navara. 25l diese in the cab. Drilled holes all over the floor to let the diesel out. That is what I was dealing with.

He could not kill golfs. Mate of mine was after a car. Told him about idiot boy and he ran them for years until you can’t really get them without moon miles on them. Then moved onto mk5 but they not as good

They have thier problems and gremlins but I'd agree you can pretty much fix anything that gose wrong with them.

 

[Moose McAlpine]

Couldn't agree more, for as much as I despise my vw caddy, with its stupid flat bottom steering wheel.

The flat-bottom steering wheel is definitely something that can off back where it came from. Awful nonsense.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Lets over complicate everything.

Electric handbrakes. My pet rant..

Why ?


Got a Pug Partner, New, if thé doors not properly shut, you can't pull away.

Hâte it, tells you when to change gears, then it's gutless, arrgghhh.

At least it probably doesn't shout at you if you try to pull away with the door not properly closed, like our new Pug work vans with manual handbrakes do.
"DRIVER... PLEASE APPLY THE PARKING BRAKE..... DRIVER... PLEASE APPLY THE PARKING BRAKE....."

 

[Barking Mat]

At least it probably doesn't shout at you if you try to pull away with the door not properly closed, like our new Pug work vans with manual handbrakes do.
"DRIVER... PLEASE APPLY THE PARKING BRAKE..... DRIVER... PLEASE APPLY THE PARKING BRAKE....."

Ours spends a lot of time beeping. Yours talks ?

 

[Wozzaaah]

Ours spends a lot of time beeping. Yours talks ?

My car is a Pug 308 that has different bings and bongs for everything.... the work vans just bellow at you.

 

[mike os]

My biggest gripe is modern cars are no more efficient...... in the real world.

Had to take the dragons new 1l polo shopping yesterday, fuel consumption was worse than my dirty 2l diesel car and slightly worse than my lwb crafter on the same trip....but it supposedly does something like 75mpg?

That said it wouldcut down on emissions as I wouldn't want to drive it again

 

[Wozzaaah]

My biggest gripe is modern cars are no more efficient...... in the real world.

Had to take the dragons new 1l polo shopping yesterday, fuel consumption was worse than my dirty 2l diesel car and slightly worse than my lwb crafter on the same trip....but it supposedly does something like 75mpg?

That said it wouldcut down on emissions as I wouldn't want to drive it again

My car is supposed to do 58mpg combined. The best I could do on a 14 mile commute was average 48 over a tankful, now I'm only doing 6 miles it's closer to 38.

 

[Edward Teach]

My car is supposed to do 58mpg combined. The best I could do on a 14 mile commute was average 48 over a tankful, now I'm only doing 6 miles it's closer to 38.

My 167,000 mile, 1.6 Hdi Citroen Berlingo Van manages to do 46mpg,
Around town and to the outskirts, on a daily 24 mile return journey.
24.49 litre - 250 miles

 

[Moose McAlpine]

Had to take the dragons new 1l polo shopping yesterday, fuel consumption was worse than my dirty 2l diesel car and slightly worse than my lwb crafter on the same trip....but it supposedly does something like 75mpg?

My old Golf wagon with a 1.9 TDI (and a bigger turbo and remap) consistently did 60mpg. Spain and back twice, Amsterdam 3 times, French Alps, etc. Anywhere on a motorway it did 60mpg, and on occasion more, 72mpg once. 800 miles to a tank. Once filled it up near Malaga and i was some way into France before it needed fuel.

The economy of it was amazing. Wish i never got rid of it. My A6 did 39mpg average over 4,000 miles through France and Spain which isn't bad for 2 tons of 4wd 3-litre but that Golf still blows most cars out the water for economy.

I traded it in for 600 quid and should've kept it.

My old LWB Sprinter frequently got into the 40s. Current one drinks like a fish, but just got it remapped and its started getting 30-ish.

 

[Keith 66]

The day i had to change the main waterpump hose on a peugot 406 was the day that car had to go, a black heart of complicated rubber hose with multiple pipes & connections, squashed behind the engine & utterly inacessible, It made a morris minor master cylinder look like a simple kids toy.
Never buy a french car or van!

 

[jerrytug]

The day i had to change the main waterpump hose on a peugot 406 was the day that car had to go, a black heart of complicated rubber hose with multiple pipes & connections, squashed behind the engine & utterly inacessible, It made a morris minor master cylinder look like a simple kids toy.
Never buy a french car or van!

I agree never buy a frog car more than once. What's wrong with Moggie Minor master cylinders? Looks simple?

 

[Barking Mat]

I agree never buy a frog car more than once. What's wrong with Moggie Minor master cylinders? Looks simple?

View attachment 298890

They're not the easiest things to access, there's a torsion bar or something which hinders access I seem to remember.

 

[Wildatlanticwelder]

Theyre buiried under the footwell, the 406 water housing would be an easy job in comparison!

 

[merryman]

The master cylinder is inside the box section with access from above by removing a bit of floor. The jokers at BMC put the bolts, which go right through the box section in, so that the heads are behind the torsion bar, so you either had to saw the bolt heads off or remove the torsion bar to get the bolts out. Had they put the bolts in from the other side it would be no problem to remove them.