Clarke 205te Friday special

[GrumpyGit]

Having used Esab at work and having a marine welding qualification, I am pretty sure that the sills and body repairs I did over the years nothing ever fell apart including a building.
Tinkering with this welder with a friend it has a euro torch conversion and was known to be a devil from day one.

It appears
1) insufficient tension on feed as some sort of distortion of plastic from what is visible, gently used a clamp as no spare thread to tension- couldn't find a reasonable metal wire feed online
2) original contactor replaced as it died years ago
3) tidy euro torch conversion
4) erratic wire feed speed on motor causes pulsing

Conclusion it is a bit of a turd from the chat it appears it should run 0.8 as marked and has swl 360 Gun/lance fitted.

Plan to try motor on a separate supply as it's disappointing a earlier model seemed great and this is a bag of crap it would seem along with a engine crane of same vintage full of swarf.

Any pointers before it gets a big hammer towards it as good money after bad so far

 

[a111r]

Welcome. Not cheap, for what they are:

Clarke 205TE 185 Amp Turbo MIG Welder - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

Maybe you're unrealistically comparing it to the ESAB?
Post up pics. Time to measure voltages...

 

[Munkul]

wire feeding is behind 99% of all MIG related problems. (yes i just made that statistic up, but I'm not wrong)

What's the euro torch socket conversion like between the feed rolls and the socket? It needs to have full wire support via a capilliary tube, or a liner trimmed all the way to the rolls.
Gun liner condition? Does it go all the way to the tip?
Tip condition?
One reason why I hate cheap(ish) MIG sets is that their wire feed mechanisms are very poorly built, although this affects some well known welding brands also... but best be certain that it IS a tension problem after you've checked everything else... if it can feed with the gun pressed against a surface still, then it's likely more than enough tension...

 

[Hutcho]

Not long just sold a 205te - was a brilliant welder and one I will regret selling

 

[eddie49]

1) couldn't find a reasonable metal wire feed online
3) tidy euro torch conversion
4) erratic wire feed speed on motor causes pulsing
Plan to try motor on a separate supply

Some of the replacement all-metal wirefeed assemblies have increased in price, but they can still be found at a reasonable price:

Welding Machine Accessories Dc 24V Wire Feed Assembly Wire Feeder Motor Mig D8D8 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Welding Machine Accessories Dc 24V Wire Feed Assembly Wire Feeder Motor Mig D8D8 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

The alternative power source is usually an old laptop PS, or the 24v 2A version of this:

DC Regulated Switching Power Supply 3V 5V 9V 12V 13.8V 15V 18V 24V 36V 48V PSU | eBay

5V 12A 60W -160x100x42mm 15V 3A 45W -110x78x36mm. 5V 20A 100W -200x100x42mm 15V 4A 60W -110x78x36mm.

www.ebay.co.uk

The power supply would be powered up with the welder main power switch, and the output is wired to a PWM speed control module:

Pardon our interruption...

The original motor output of the control PCB ( which is retained ) drives a relay that connects the motor to the new speed control module when the torch trigger is pressed.

 

[GrumpyGit]

Thank you for the replies the small Esab at work in 2008 was a 16amp single phase and £1200+ vat
The bigger ones were 3phase 32 amp supply with water cooled torches &
Spools of wire crane or fork lifted in so this "DIY & Hobby set completely
Different.

Moving on as I agree a completely different beast and I understand it was built to a price.


Stripped the euro torch and steel liner found nothing wrong, looks to have
Done next to no work.

Pulled side of machine off for another look and got matey to watch,
To which the wire speed all over place.

Pulled the wire feed out and stripped it apart.
The main drive is bearing and plain bearing and no real wear, I'm guessing
It's done a few spools of 15kg at most.

Grease like glue and hardened, washed it out carefully with brake cleaner to not contaminate bearing.
Lubed plain bush and lightly greased with marine grease.
Looking at feed parts there is a 608z tension bearing and The tensioner housing looks to be able to take a bigger external diameter as it's as if the bearing is under sized causing no adjustment as no real wear.

I was also surprised at the tiny feed motor as I expected a car rear wiper size motor, but it has plenty of brush life left.

So while you guys seem to rate this machine, can anyone tell me the bearing size expected and if a metal wire feed is likely to be the end of this as matey seems to think I can work miracles- I'm not sure I would be confident with anything other than a garden gate with it.

No Capacitors inside it which I expected and a choke it seems, just trying to gauge the effort required
and the likeyhood of a reasonable hobby machine.

Thanks for the info

 

[a111r]

The bearing size is correct.
Are the roller and tip selected correctly?
Where are you?

 

[eddie49]

the wire speed all over place

No Capacitors inside it which I expected and a choke it seems

Erratic wire speed could have either of two causes:
- mechanical: spool tension, feed motor/gearbox, feed roller, pressure roller, torch liner & tip -- all of which you are working on.

- electrical: dumb speed control ( current control not pulse-width modulated ), or motor power sourced from welding voltage, which varies with arc length - that is the reason for the independent stabilised power supply modification.
You might be able to check for this condition by getting your mate to monitor the voltage across the motor, directly at the brush terminals, during welding. Probably an analogue meter would be best to see this.

There are no capacitors in this class of hobby machine. To get those, you need a Murex, Eland, Migatronic, or later Tec-Arc.
It has a choke? Sheer bl**dy luxury that ! No, really, today's £99 Chinese "MIG Welders" do not have chokes, in fact they don't have rectifiers either - they are just a transformer and a Dinky Toy motor in a tin box.

 

[GrumpyGit]

I see thank you for explaining, I didn't know what to expect on this type of welder and I had wondered if it was like triggers broom.

I believe it goes something like this, the grease was too thick from day one and the semi solid lumps caused speed issues.( Cleaned and regreased)

The contactor is a City Electrical brand so it has been swapped.

Looking online and the spare earth wire and Euro torch mod- previously the stock items look very short.

I now understand the reason your suggestions of a speed mod, currently the feed unit on a sheet adapter plate and I noticed one bolt on tensioner hinge is short.

I'm wondering if the plastic has warped where it was assumed that wire was slipping and not glue like grease in gearbox of wire feed?
I have gently heated plastic tensioner and have about 1.5 mm clearance- it does weld now but can't say I'm impressed so far.

The Euro torch is 3m long with wire liner, looking online it had a Teflon liner I believe I take it suggested metal feed will cope as it looks a little anarexic motor compared to what I expected.

I'm in Somerset.

Thanks for all the info and it is gradually improving.

 

[a111r]

Clarke wire feeders and motors are quite small and basic, but they work OK.
They tend not to suffer from the small motor / wire speed variability issue that others do, that are also fed from the welding voltage.

Post up some photos.
If it's had a Euro conversion, then it has to be aligned well, otherwise the wire will catch and drag.

 

[GrumpyGit]

Clarke Mig welder 140 & Pro 90 Wire feed tensioner arm | eBay

Wire feed tensioner arm to suit Clarke mig welder 140 & weld pro 90. The black tensioner arm is the original and for reference only.

www.ebay.co.uk

Seems a known issue of deformed plastic tensioner arm

 

[GrumpyGit]

Ok well the wire feed turned up in the most dodgy packaging which had been dropped and scrapped plastic thumb nut.

Now from what I can see the original Lance that should come with machine has some sort of plastic shroud- so it would enter horizontal.

Now this POS has been cut about to relocate original wire feed and I think not man enough for what I now believe a 250amp euro torch and wire liner.

So made plate and decided to keep existing euro connection as it was stronger and tidy.

Surprised circuit board no conformal coating so did that. Relocation and solder and heat shrink the wire feed wires and a 20mm grommet.
Used old motor cap to protect motor terminals.

Seems to have cured the pulsing, it's on pub gas, which I thought argoshield wasn't expensive.

Will test further this week, I know they are built to a price- but surely a few too many corners cut.

Thanks for suggestions.

 

[a111r]

Install fail.
The replacement motor has been mounted incorrectly and all to cock. The motor need to be horizontal.

 

[GrumpyGit]

Not without major metal work, it's a £32 motor, and zero instructions or this way up arrow.
If it works it's not worth the effort.

 

[GrumpyGit]

I will take manufacturer advice over random keyboard warrior with nothing constructive to add.

It's a pile anyway so suggested to buy a decent brand and dog this off

 

[DSR]

Don't bin it or trash it - it's perfectly serviceable.

Where are you based, somebody on here will gladly take it off your hands and make it serviceable - trust me.

And if there's nobody local willing to take it, stick a label on it and somebody will pay postage to ship it - me included.

 

[Cobbler]

I did wonder if the size of the reel wasn’t helping the feed problems, there is a lot of weight to stop/start, putting a lot of strain on the feed motor. The Clarke’s are pretty bomb proof normally, there are plenty around over 20 years old being used on a regular basis.

 

[GrumpyGit]

Don't bin it or trash it - it's perfectly serviceable.

Where are you based, somebody on here will gladly take it off your hands and make it serviceable - trust me.

And if there's nobody local willing to take it, stick a label on it and somebody will pay postage to ship it - me included.

Here is where I am with it, the owner of it I think is having a hard time at moment.
I could make a stand off and mess round with it for the whole lot to shake. Or Chinese tat wire feed can take it's chances.
I have sprayed some switch cleaner and set min speed pot lower as far too fast.

Now if the fellow makes garden ornaments or whatever it is he plans- my suggestion is save for something else Esab, Oxford or possibly Portamig.

Work in the past have had various tools grinders, drills etc we have simply cut leads off and weighed in as couldn't be bothering with checking brushes and PAT testing

I don't do PayPal etc so I would be willing to give away or cheaply grinders etc -collection only in recognition of help with wire feed if we get another batch.

Cheers

 

[GrumpyGit]

I did wonder if the size of the reel wasn’t helping the feed problems, there is a lot of weight to stop/start, putting a lot of strain on the feed motor. The Clarke’s are pretty bomb proof normally, there are plenty around over 20 years old being used on a regular basis.

Smaller reel, shorter Lance and you could be right.

From what I could tell it's been modified with longer earth and I think the Euro torch is a conversion as well.

The story goes bought,was trouble got shoved in a corner and another mig bought. Don't know much else

 

[DSR]

Here is where I am with it, the owner of it I think is having a hard time at moment.
I could make a stand off and mess round with it for the whole lot to shake. Or Chinese tat wire feed can take it's chances.
I have sprayed some switch cleaner and set min speed pot lower as far too fast.

Now if the fellow makes garden ornaments or whatever it is he plans- my suggestion is save for something else Esab, Oxford or possibly Portamig.

Work in the past have had various tools grinders, drills etc we have simply cut leads off and weighed in as couldn't be bothering with checking brushes and PAT testing

I don't do PayPal etc so I would be willing to give away or cheaply grinders etc -collection only in recognition of help with wire feed if we get another batch.

Cheers

I get where you're coming from and couldn't argue with Esab, Oxford or (Portamig probably a bit less ) however I think your expectations are a bit high for the Clarke. The Clarkes are made to a price and if I was running a business that depended on a MIG welder, I'd probably buy one to get me over the hump of establishing but as soon as things got serious it'd be upgraded out the door and replaced with some serious kit. This is worse in your case - "Mates Rates" are OK when the time spent is minimal but getting the Clarke to a suitable standard for you may be unachievable at "Mates Rates". It's probably been made worse if somebody else has had a go at "fettling" it as well

What's difficult is where you draw the line, is it worth farting about with the Clarke or would it be better spending a few hundred more and upgrading. Eventually, the Clarke will break again and you will be back to the "I wish I'd bought..".

For me, the Clarke would be fine for most of what I do - a bit of MIG welding a few times a year but I'm a hobby welder, different scenario to the Clarke.

As I said, I can't argue with your logic and the owner really needs to decide what they want but really, don't condemn the Clarke to the skip - there's a lot of people use them and swear by them (as well as at them).

Maybe it's time for a heart to heart talk with the owner.