The Return Of Nuclear Power !?!

[Munkul]

Just looked at our power bills the other day as the contract is up for renewal. Spoiler alert, rates are going up.

Bit of a rough thought experiment/estimation. I am sure there are loads of mitigating factors in all of this and the numbers are only indicators at best.

We have a gas central heating/hot water boiler. Modern combi thing. Two of us in a three bed semi. Very frugal and sparing with the heating. The thermostat is never set higher than 18. I like a decent shower, that is the only indulgence really. We have a log burner which probably gets used two dozen days per year.

Annual use to Jan 2021:
Electric 2793 KWH
Gas 9765 KWH

I work from home due to the current carry on and don't drive as much as I used to. Probably fill the car every three to four weeks.

16 times per year at 50 litres at 9.6kwh per litre is 7680 Kwh

For an electric equivalent roughly:

Divide by two due to electric motor efficiency. 85% vs 40%
3840 KWH

So if we have to decarbonise my electric demand goes up from 2793 to 16398kwh. Nearly six times as much.
I suppose storage heaters could be employed at night when there is no demand so and so could the charging of the replacement electric vehicle, but if everyone is doing the same the power and cheap off peak electricity may not be there like it is at the moment.


I guess they need to start building something.

owww... that's painful... at current electric and fuel prices, you're going to go from £1000/year to £2200/year if you switch to electricity... Approximations...

Now atm there's maybe cheap tarrifs, but you can bet your last bootstrap that with the strike price agreed for Hinkley Point C, and the rising demand due to cars, the price of electric is going up, not down.

It's a crazy thought... we don't generate enough electricity as it is, and yet if we follow the EV trends, we're going to need to generate 5 times as much as present!

 

[Richiew]

A quick google suggests we are a low consumer for gas as well. One site at the top of the searches suggested household annual low is 8k kwh, Average around 12k and high around 17k. We also use a little less electric that the average household too. Only one telly in the place and LEDs thoughout. The expected average is 8 to 10kwh per day. I obviously don't do enough welding.

 

[Ross365]

15 sites identified as possible locations for the fusion reactor.

 

[Kayos]

Can't compare gas and electricity prices without stating how a heat pump works.

1kw of electricity gives 3 to 4kw of heat, making them 300-400% efficient (i know, its just a way to express it)

Need to bring the cost of them down massively first though

 

[Richiew]

Electric compared to gas is five times more expensive per kwh so the efficiency gains need to be massive just to stay still.

 

[Kayos]

Electric compared to gas is five times more expensive per kwh so the efficiency gains need to be massive just to stay still.

No it isn't, it's about 3.7 times the cost of electric vs gas, meaning swapping a gas boiler is not really worth it, but taking electric storage heaters out saves money on bills

Not including the install cost, im well aware of those

 

[Richiew]

My bill says 15.176p per kwh and 3.204p per kwh

 

[Kayos]

You are overpaying then

 

[Dave-sparks]

It's all well and good increasing power generation by whatever means but parts of our distribution networks are also not up to the job.

There are parts of our LV distribution networks, still in use, which are left from before the national grid was created and the UK was standardised.

We can't keep increasing the load without upgrading the substations, cables etc that are already running overloaded and well past their design life.

 

[R Kraft]

I don't totally trust nuclear, but I am getting tired of wind turbines appearing on every hilltop.
Many times they are not turning, and they seem to have a tendency to burn out the brakes and catch fire.
The companies that install them ,depend on the government subsidies to make a profit ,and have no plans on how to restore environmental damage that they cause.

Hundreds of fiberglass wind turbine blades pile up in landfills

The municipal landfill in Casper, Wyoming, is the repository of at least 870 discarded blades, and one of the few locations in the country that accepts the massive fiberglass objects.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[merryman]

I wouldn't worry too much about waste from wind turbines. Compared to that from nuclear power plants, it just doesn't matter. Being more or less inert it isn't going to pollute watercourses etc, much nuclear requires vitrification and they still don't know where to put it once treated, as nobody wants a nuclear storage facility in their area.

As for power distribution, solar, some wind and micro-hydro should help, as no longer is all the power coming from a few central sources. Combined heat and power could further make production and use closer, so requiring fewer increases to the network. However more combined heat and power is a non starter as gas is regarded as part of the problem. I suspect if all the power for transport, home and factory heating, is added to the load we are already putting on the grid, neither generation nor distribution would be able to cope.

 

[Guzrik]

A one hour plus documentary on Finlands nucleair wast storage.
What upset me most is the deliberations on what sign they should put on the facility when it is filled.
What will our grandchildren think of this? And their grandchildren?

 

[KemppiFrog]

Heard that the regulators and power station people were in bed together in Japan, so while the problem was obvious, nothing was done. The site was old and they were not keen on spending money...
Tsunamis: There is an unstable slope on the west of one of the Canary Isls; A really big lump of land. if that slides into the sea the resulting wave will swamp the East coast of the US and a lot of western europe's coast, up to the UK. Doubt that planning is ignoring that, but how far do you go?
Germany: Many of their factorys have back-up gensets and need them, due to the supply problem when the guv freaked out and shut down their nukes.
As said, the Russians and also the americans at Three Mile Island, were running 'what if' tests that got out of hand. So, at this point the accidents weren't part of normal use.

 

[Seadog]

Mount Teide on Tenerife I believe.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Mount Teide on Tenerife I believe.

Thanks, couldn't remember and too lazy to look it up

 

[Seadog]

I remember watching a documentary on it a few years back.

 

[indy4x]

It's a crazy thought... we don't generate enough electricity as it is, and yet if we follow the EV trends, we're going to need to generate 5 times as much as present!

I've seen a quote recently from National Grid stating they believe electricity generation needs the grow by 10% to accommodate electric vehicle charging

They were claiming we do generate enough electricity but it's the peaks they struggle with, if intelligent chargers were used to fluctuate the feeds to electric vehicle charging it'll will cope

 

[Ross365]

Fission reactors, like we have now, will always be dangerous, but if they get Fusion to work, a fusion station should present no danger. That's one of the reasons they kept chasing it. I reckon it will be done one day, but I'm not betting any money on when that day will be.

 

[reb78]

I don't totally trust nuclear, but I am getting tired of wind turbines appearing on every hilltop.
Many times they are not turning, and they seem to have a tendency to burn out the brakes and catch fire.
The companies that install them ,depend on the government subsidies to make a profit ,and have no plans on how to restore environmental damage that they cause.

Hundreds of fiberglass wind turbine blades pile up in landfills

The municipal landfill in Casper, Wyoming, is the repository of at least 870 discarded blades, and one of the few locations in the country that accepts the massive fiberglass objects.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I heard the other day that the ones off of the coast south along from skegness in lincolnshire had been up about 7 years but only just connected to the grid?! Dont know how true that is but what a waste if it is!

 

[mike os]

I've seen a quote recently from National Grid stating they believe electricity generation needs the grow by 10% to accommodate electric vehicle charging

They were claiming we do generate enough electricity but it's the peaks they struggle with, if intelligent chargers were used to fluctuate the feeds to electric vehicle charging it'll will cope

10% And what else did Santa say?