plumbing - stop tap

[peterd51]

Hi,

I've asked on a DIY forum but I reckon I'll get better advice here...

background: the house was built in the mid 60's. We had major building work done around 20 years ago and my wife tells me that the stop tap was changed then (I'd have been at work so have no idea!).

The feed pipe looks like PVC, etc, and measures 17.5mm (0.7 inch) diameter. The outlet pipe is 15mm copper, please see the attached image.

It's dripping from the 'tap' bit and depending on the position of the tap it's bad, or not so bad. It's bad enough that I turn it off overnight and when I go to work just in case, and this stops the drip.

I've been to Woolsleys Plumb Centre in town but they're not really interested. They tell me that kit is available but they can't supply it. A direct replacement would be best. Does anyone think it's possible that the PVC feed had been trimmed/filed down to fit into a 15mm hole?

Is it likely that if I buy a straight 15mm stop-tap and unscrew that bottom connection that it'll go directly into the new one without changing the nut and ring (assuming it has one). Looking at the two nuts they seem about the same size and thread, but the lower one is a different shape underneath.

If so, is there anything I can do or need to do to ensure that it seals?

If a standard tap doesn't look like it'll fit, then is there any kind of reducer that I can use to get down to 15mm copper? Again I'm concerned about sealing it.

Regards
Peter

 

[wyn]

I'm not too clued up on plumbing but the farm where my workshop is, has a lot of black imperial pipe that sometimes needs repairing. I tend to use the plastic fittings and taps that seem to fit both imperial and metric pipe.

Might not be suitable for plastic to copper though ?

 

[MarkMG]

This may well work
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/32496/Plumbing/Brassware/Comap-Brass-Poly-Stop-Cock-15mm-x-20mm
Otherwise google 'stop cock' as apposed to 'stop tap'

 

[eil]

The pvc pipe will have an insert in it more than likely as it looks like a compression joint. you will have to shut off the water down the line so to speak,maybe out on the pavement, then you can remove the tap and take it with you to get a replacement.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

that was quick, can't you guys sleep? :-)

This may well work...
Otherwise google 'stop cock' as apposed to 'stop tap'

thanks, I found one of those. I'm a bit concerned that it'll not compress down 2.5mm though. And the one I have looks the same at both ends, although I've not measured the tap body, only the pipes.

Regards
Peter

 

[KTMMICK]

As someone says shut it down, take it off and take with you, try to find one of the smaller plumbers merchants they are more helpful. Also by going in armed with what you need you may bump in to a plumber who will give you advice.

 

[KTMMICK]

Thinking again, where is it leaking? Try shutting it down, strip it down descale it and reseal if necessary. Should be easy enough........sounds like it is leaking around the shaft, is that correct?

 

[kingkenny]

sounds like the packing gland is leaking.
the incoming main looks like MDPE which comes in 20mm as the smallest diameter.
do you have a plumbase near you,they are quite good on customer service.

 

[pedrobedro]

You could get a compression fitting to fit 15mm copper pipe into the end of your incoming plastic pipe then replace your stop cock with a new one for under £10.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

it's leaking from the shaft. Someone on the DIY forum suggested turning off outside, undoing the small nut on the front and winding PTFE tape around the shaft then tightening up. Seems a bit like a short-term fix to me.

Sounds easy enough but this is 20 year old (at least!) kit so I'd like to have a new one on hand just in case anything breaks off.

The problem is that feed pipe is definately 17.5mm, I measured with the digital caliper and double-checked on the printed scale. I'm not convinced that the 20mm compression ring will go down that far. If you stick a ruler or tape against the picture and check out the distance across the two pipes you'll see that they're almost the same. A 20 mm feed would be approximately 1/3 bigger than the top pipe and you'd see it even on my dodgy photo. Don't forget that it was probably installed in 1965 when they were working to UK measures (7/10th inches).

If it's a standard 15mm body though, maybe that bottom nut will screw straight onto a new body without disturbing the ring? I'll check the threads top and bottom tonight with the caliper.

My current plan is to get a new 15mm + 15mm stop tap, then on Saturday morning turn off outside, take the small nut off and check inside. If it's clean and I can get the new innerds into the old body that's what I'll do. If not I'll clean up, fit a new washer as it's never been changed, and pack the outer part with PTFE tape.

If that fails then I'll be trying to change the whole body.

I'm not happy with plumbing, only do it when I really have to!

Thanks
Peter

 

[kingkenny]

the 15 x 20 stop cock wont fit on that tube,for the life of me i cant think of the pipe they used back in the mid 60s when there was a copper shortage,the O.D. on thet was 18mm,will do some research into it.

 

[bush]

When I do plumbing jobs I often find that the tap weeps around the shaft. Replacement is best but most times my customers just want a quick fix which is perfectly OK. So, if you can, unscrew the nut around the handle shaft (water may come out but not much and the shaft/seal will not come out. Get some natural fibre string and roll it around in Boss Green or some other oil based sealer. Tamp a little of this round the shaft, tighten the nut gently and the leak should stop. Tighten a little more if you need to, but remeber it is brass. You can use PTFE tape but it's not as good IMHO.

 

[pops6506]

Hi
Its a shame i was in scunthorpe today could have sorted it.
But thats the way it goes someone always says i can help after the fact.
So if you are not desperate and you want to pm me your phone number next time in the area i will install another tap for you for the princley some of a cuppa.

 

[Mikey D]

As has been said its an easy repair , try tightning the gland nut first ,if its still dripping repack it as suggested . You dont want the hassle of changing the stop tap unless you have to !
cheers mike

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

thanks. Repacking it is going to be my first try on Saturday morning but it'll be PTFE as I have loads of that. I'd have liked to swap the insides if it was possible though, I'm not keen on bodge jobs on something like this. If it fails early one morning and we're out of the house for a few hours it can make a mess!

Pops6506, thanks for the offer, it's a bit hard finding someone in as Bobbie (the wife) works as required. She's going on to two days a week after Christmas so if I don't like the look of my work you'll be getting a PM!

It's not that I object to paying for it but it's hard to find a trustworthy plumber around here. We used one guy for 20-odd years but his wife got a job away somewhere and he moved with her.

I had a look at the external stop-tap this evening just to make sure it turns. It's a new one, installed about five years ago as I recall. The old one was about three feet down and I made a long T-bar years ago to get to it. This one has a long handle so it's not far below the surface. Thin plastic shaft though, I bet they break easily in the cold and especially when they get a few years old!

Regards
Peter

 

[pops6506]

Stop tap chamber is probably a atplas box with meter fitting that is fitted as standard in anglian water and your fears are just when shutting off you have to be very carefull as if you over tighten the socket that the plastic key fits into tend to split and the only way to repair them is to call out anglian water in the mean time you've no water.
Just to let you know i have worked for 25 years in the utilities industry mainly in the water sector.
The black pipe is known in the area as alkethene or black alky.
It comes in different sizes and different classes Eg class A class B and so on to denote wall thickness.
If i can be of anymore help just ask.

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Peter,
Because of a £60K major refurb ot our bungalow due to water leak .
I have recently had to chop black plastic ( circa 1976 ) c/w stopcock just like yours remove the stop and refit with plastic adaptor for the black plastic to copper then fit a bit of 15.. copper and then a new plastic internal stop ( half turn and it is off ) , to copper then to acorn tube.

If you are still struggling after the week end PM me with black tube internal & external sizes & I'll nip down to the place to see if they still have the adaptors ... they did say they are not a fast moving stock item but that winter often sees quite a demand for them .
I think it was about £6,40 for the adaptor .

David

 

[macmig]

i see you have had lots of offers but i'll add another
im a plumber by trade not that thats important but if you need any help please feel free to send me a message and i will help in any way i can
all the best
martin

 

[Charred fingers]

Hi,

I've asked on a DIY forum but I reckon I'll get better advice here...

background: the house was built in the mid 60's. We had major building work done around 20 years ago and my wife tells me that the stop tap was changed then (I'd have been at work so have no idea!).

The feed pipe looks like PVC, etc, and measures 17.5mm (0.7 inch) diameter. The outlet pipe is 15mm copper, please see the attached image.

It's dripping from the 'tap' bit and depending on the position of the tap it's bad, or not so bad. It's bad enough that I turn it off overnight and when I go to work just in case, and this stops the drip.

I've been to Woolsleys Plumb Centre in town but they're not really interested. They tell me that kit is available but they can't supply it. A direct replacement would be best. Does anyone think it's possible that the PVC feed had been trimmed/filed down to fit into a 15mm hole?

Is it likely that if I buy a straight 15mm stop-tap and unscrew that bottom connection that it'll go directly into the new one without changing the nut and ring (assuming it has one). Looking at the two nuts they seem about the same size and thread, but the lower one is a different shape underneath.

If so, is there anything I can do or need to do to ensure that it seals?

If a standard tap doesn't look like it'll fit, then is there any kind of reducer that I can use to get down to 15mm copper? Again I'm concerned about sealing it.

Regards
Peter

View attachment 12631

Looking at that and the dimensions given its 3/8th alkathene , as Kingkenny said its the packing gland that is weeping ,back the small insert out and retighten may or may not seal it. If it doesn't go to buiders merchant and tell them you need to connect 3/8th alkathene to 15mm copper via a stoptap Plasson or Philmac make all sorts of fittings(cheap nasty plastic these days unfortunately). As it was last done in the sixties the copper will be 1/2" same external diameter as the paper thin imported 15mm but much thicker walled

 

[Tigman]

Plasson do an all fit fitting! isolate the water , cut the black imperial plastic and whack the all fit fitting on, there is a gripping part and a big rubber "o" ring in there and they are very good fittings , I think Philmac do the same . The fitting you want will be from say 15mm to 20mm and will grip on to any pipe ie lead , copper , iron . I have fitted many to black imperial on Pinner park farm up to 2" pipe very reliable , im not sure they convert straight to copper on the other side so you may need a small run of the blue MDPE and a fitting to reduce from that to 15mm copper , or a new stopcock 20mm MDPE to 15mm copper !Hope that helps