Boiler help

[winchman]

I got a Company as recommended by Worcester Bosch, to fit a new boiler for the inlaws.
They have already been back once to correct a leak
I have spotted this as well as some missing Earth Bonding.
Now I assume this is not right and should be sealed to the brick work?
I just want to get my facts straight before I send me Email

 

[daleyd]

Even if it’s “acceptable” by the letter of the regs (I’m not a gas engineer so I don’t know that part) - it wouldn’t be acceptable to me, it just looks shoddy.

 

[grim_d]

Not acceptable under any circumstances, complete lack of care, imagine what else they've left a shambles.

It might have been the previous flue but why do they always make a huge mess then pump it full of silicone?

I think the boot is just a rain cover really, I've never seen one actually sealed to the wall but it should be at least butted up against it I'd say.

 

[winchman]

I had a look last night and the rest looks ok, we suspect he didn't want to climb on the roof to access this so he shoved the rubber collar through the existing hole from inside the house, its sealed with a whits plastic collar on the inside.

 

[Kayos]

Flue must be sealed inside and out with a suitable material. So a brick wall needs mortar.

If there are poc's entering the building (allthough unlikely) then the boiler would have to be made safe, however on a new install I would be straight onto gas safe.

Whats the pipework like?

 

[Agroshield]

See, from WB, itself (mortar not needed as the flue people recognise quite properly that external access is not always possible)

https://www.worcester-bosch.ie/support/literature/download/TB0063

Pushing through from inside OK, but needs to be internally sealed with expanding foam.

However, the weathering collar needs to be flush (slightly compressed) against the brickwork. To achieve this, the flue needs to be cut to the correct length. Your one is cut too long. Remove, measure correctly, cut down at internal end, reinstall.

See also:

http://registeredgasengineer.co.uk/...d_sealing_horizontal_chimney_terminations.pdf

 

[winchman]

Flue must be sealed inside and out with a suitable material. So a brick wall needs mortar.

If there are poc's entering the building (allthough unlikely) then the boiler would have to be made safe, however on a new install I would be straight onto gas safe.

Whats the pipework like?

Pipes look ok to be fair, If it was me I would have fitted more brackets

 

[winchman]

See, from WB, itself (mortar not needed as the flue people recognise quite properly that external access is not always possible)

https://www.worcester-bosch.ie/support/literature/download/TB0063

Pushing through from inside OK, but needs to be internally sealed with expanding foam.

However, the weathering collar needs to be flush (slightly compressed) against the brickwork. To achieve this, the flue needs to be cut to the correct length. Your one is cut too long. Remove, measure correctly, cut down at internal end, reinstall.

See also:

http://registeredgasengineer.co.uk/...d_sealing_horizontal_chimney_terminations.pdf

Thanks
Just composing a stiff Email.

 

[Kayos]

See, from WB, itself (mortar not needed as the flue people recognise quite properly that external access is not always possible)

https://www.worcester-bosch.ie/support/literature/download/TB0063

Pushing through from inside OK, but needs to be internally sealed with expanding foam.

However, the weathering collar needs to be flush (slightly compressed) against the brickwork. To achieve this, the flue needs to be cut to the correct length. Your one is cut too long. Remove, measure correctly, cut down at internal end, reinstall.

See also:

http://registeredgasengineer.co.uk/...d_sealing_horizontal_chimney_terminations.pdf

You have contradicted yourself, the TB you linked says the weather seal alone is not enough.

Also the Worcester flue is telescopic so can't be cut down, something that should only be done by a gas engineer who can then carry out an integrity test, its very easy to turn a seal and cause the air inlet to re burn the poc's, causing issues with the flame

 

[Agroshield]

You have contradicted yourself, the TB you linked says the weather seal alone is not enough.

I must apologise, I added the second link some time after the first. In some ways, it is much better than the WB one as it tells you not only what needs to be done, but why (two actions needed: weather seal and resistance to movement). Just the rubber seal on the outside can be adequate as long as the other seal is on the inside. It also means that winchman should look behind the inner white, largely cosmetic, seal to satisfy himself that some sort of annular packing is there.

I was not for a moment suggesting winchman should do the the work himself, just giving a quick resume of the work the gas engineer would likely need to do to rectify the problem.

What is likely to have more power over the original installer, "my mate on a welding forum says it needs mortar" to which the response might be "well show me in the regs. where it says that" or a published document by a recognised industry body which any gas professional should be aware of?

If you have a flue that is four floors up and someone has built a glass-roof conservatory below it after it was installed, it is cost-prohibitive to try to go go up there with your bucket of 4:1. Hence, both documents provide a safe solution for this.

 

[winchman]

The bonding has been cut off and not re fitted.

 

[winchman]

I must apologise, I added the second link some time after the first. In some ways, it is much better than the WB one as it tells you not only what needs to be done, but why (two actions needed: weather seal and resistance to movement). Just the rubber seal on the outside can be adequate as long as the other seal is on the inside. It also means that winchman should look behind the inner white, largely cosmetic, seal to satisfy himself that some sort of annular packing is there.

I was not for a moment suggesting winchman should do the the work himself, just giving a quick resume of the work the gas engineer would likely need to do to rectify the problem.

What is likely to have more power over the original installer, "my mate on a welding forum says it needs mortar" to which the response might be "well show me in the regs. where it says that" or a published document by a recognised industry body which any gas professional should be aware of?

If you have a flue that is four floors up and someone has built a glass-roof conservatory below it after it was installed, it is cost-prohibitive to try to go go up there with your bucket of 4:1. Hence, both documents provide a safe solution for this.

Whilst I should be able to fix this I am old and wise enough to know better, I wont touch gas flues etc.
I have added both links to my complaint Email should I remove one? Not sent it yet

 

[winchman]

 

[Kayos]

View attachment 248745

That pipework is horrific, the prv connected to the condensate is allowed, via a hot tun or similar. Bonding not so much an issue these days

 

[Kayos]

I must apologise, I added the second link some time after the first. In some ways, it is much better than the WB one as it tells you not only what needs to be done, but why (two actions needed: weather seal and resistance to movement). Just the rubber seal on the outside can be adequate as long as the other seal is on the inside. It also means that winchman should look behind the inner white, largely cosmetic, seal to satisfy himself that some sort of annular packing is there.

I was not for a moment suggesting winchman should do the the work himself, just giving a quick resume of the work the gas engineer would likely need to do to rectify the problem.

What is likely to have more power over the original installer, "my mate on a welding forum says it needs mortar" to which the response might be "well show me in the regs. where it says that" or a published document by a recognised industry body which any gas professional should be aware of?

If you have a flue that is four floors up and someone has built a glass-roof conservatory below it after it was installed, it is cost-prohibitive to try to go go up there with your bucket of 4:1. Hence, both documents provide a safe solution for this.

If @winchman wants the regs I will happily comply, accompanied with my gas safe registration details

I work on caravans quite a lot, hence the "suitable material" they can be sealed with exterior grade silicone on caravans or wooden cladded buildings

High flues (over 18m) are now covered under different regs post the Grenfell disaster

 

[mtt.tr]

bonding is very unlikely needed if the house is on an rcd

 

[mike os]

Cross bonding isn't required these days unless things changed with the 18th, though personally I would refit if it is there.

Flue should be sealed and weatherproofed, thats just shoddy work

 

[winchman]

Thanks going to send me Email now

 

[brightspark]

those pipes don't require bonding its old hat. the gas and water mains require bonding back at source within 50mm of the gas meter or stop tap with 10mm earth wire .if it isn't the boiler installer should have flagged it up on his certificate. I can never understand why plumbers cross bond all the pipes at the boiler there already all connected together on the boiler manifold and serve no purpose as for the flue it should be sealed round outside with mortar and the inside sealed as well with plaster or similar to stop any ingress of fumes in to the cavity or house

 

[grim_d]

those pipes don't require bonding its old hat. the gas and water mains require bonding back at source within 50mm of the gas meter or stop tap with 10mm earth wire .if it isn't the boiler installer should have flagged it up on his certificate. I can never understand why plumbers cross bond all the pipes at the boiler there already all connected together on the boiler manifold and serve no purpose as for the flue it should be sealed round outside with mortar and the inside sealed as well with plaster or similar to stop any ingress of fumes in to the cavity or house

The guys who put the boiler in at my mum's new house just used offcuts of pipe lagging as sealant.