Weld sticking to tip

iainel · Jul 5, 2009

Hi. I'm using a Clarke 151TE MIG welder and find myself getting through a ridiculous amount of tips. The wire seems to burn back to the tip and weld itself to it.

Was trying to weld 3mm steel earlier and got through about 5 tips in half hour. Each time it happens I find the only way to change the tip is to dismantle the handle, remove the swanneck and cut the wire so the tip can unscrew.

What's going wrong? Technique or settings problem?

fingers99 · Jul 5, 2009

Difficult to comment on technique -- overhead will increase the likelyhood of this happening.

2 ideas. Get some tip dip: it'll really help. Best way is to use the welder to get some heat into the tip and then dunk it in.

Increase wire speed a little.

Often tips can be freed simply by twisting the bobble of filler on the end (or the tip itself). They can be -- if you can get the wire out! -- cleaned up using a file on the snout end and (although they soon become too big) using a tip cleaner (set of tiny round files) like folk use on oxy/acetylene nozzles.

malcolm · Jul 5, 2009

Mine used to do that a lot too. How old is yours? If more than a couple of years it might do with a new steel liner. Mine was ancient and it was before I discovered nice new liners.

And what fingers said.

iainel · Jul 5, 2009

Regarding technique, I wondered if holding the torch in the same place for too long/moving it too slowly might cause it..?

I've managed to free it with a pair of pliers a few times, but more often than not it won't come off. I'll look in to the tip dip though, thanks a lot.

Edit since Malcolm replied:

It was brand new and had about 6 months use. I'm willing to try some new components in case it helps though, is the liner the part inside of the swanneck?

Sparkey · Jul 5, 2009

I was wondering....(just thinking out loud here

) when you manage to get a decent weld from it, do you feel the wire stuttering or scraping inside the torch or liner? Is your wirefeed roller(s) set too tight?
Is the wire just sticking to the tip or issit really welding itself to it?
:ashamed:

oh forgot....hehe...hi!! :waving:

edit liner: yes the liner goes from the tip right down to your wirefeed roller...

malcolm · Jul 5, 2009

It might well be you are running too slow, and have the wire speed down to suit. I'm slow myself, but am speeding up with time. I'm guessing you are welding thin stuff - too close to the work can also cause that trouble by overheating the tips. Bad tips are readily available at cheap prices and won't help - they go funny when they get too hot.

Post a couple of pictures - that might help diagnosis.

No point in replacing bits if it's only 6 months old, unless you've run rusty wire through. The Clarkes with the gas valve in the torch have a separate liner in the swan neck.

pedrobedro · Jul 5, 2009

I'd go with too slow a wire feed and gradually getting closer to the work till the heat melts the tip and wire together. How close is the tip to the end of the shroud ? About 1/8" inside if you don't want to touch down.
Saw the end off the tip and file it flat after you get the wire out :whistle:

Rusty · Jul 5, 2009

Ideally you should be using 0.8mm welding wire , if your using 0.6mm on 3mm material it will burn back too quickly and can weld itself to the tip

Sparkey · Jul 5, 2009

pedrobedro said:
I'd go with too slow a wire feed and gradually getting closer to the work till the heat melts the tip and wire together. How close is the tip to the end of the shroud ? About 1/8" inside if you don't want to touch down.
Saw the end off the tip and file it flat after you get the wire out

That won't work very long i'm afraid....once you start filing and sawing to your tip the spatter get's stuck even more to it!

iainel · Jul 5, 2009

Sparkey said:
I was wondering....(just thinking out loud here) when you manage to get a decent weld from it, do you feel the wire stuttering or scraping inside the torch or liner? Is your wirefeed roller(s) set too tight?
Is the wire just sticking to the tip or issit really welding itself to it?
oh forgot....hehe...hi!!

edit liner: yes the liner goes from the tip right down to your wirefeed roller...

What would that sound like? It is quite noisy at higher wire speeds but I figured that would be normal. What's the difference between welding to it and sticking? I can't pull it off with pliers if that's what you're getting at?

malcolm said:
It might well be you are running too slow, and have the wire speed down to suit. I'm slow myself, but am speeding up with time. I'm guessing you are welding thin stuff - too close to the work can also cause that trouble by overheating the tips. Bad tips are readily available at cheap prices and won't help - they go funny when they get too hot.

Post a couple of pictures - that might help diagnosis.

No point in replacing bits if it's only 6 months old, unless you've run rusty wire through. The Clarkes with the gas valve in the torch have a separate liner in the swan neck.

Not run rusty wire, the liner down the swan neck looks fine so probs be ok.

I'm trying to weld 3mm stuff so not exactly thin. Used to have this problem with thinner metal but don't anymore, just started happening on this thicker stuff today.

I've overpainted the welds where the problem happened, are pics of that useful?

pedrobedro said:
I'd go with too slow a wire feed and gradually getting closer to the work till the heat melts the tip and wire together. How close is the tip to the end of the shroud ? About 1/8" inside if you don't want to touch down.
Saw the end off the tip and file it flat after you get the wire out

Can you adjust where the tip sits? I just screw it in till the end of the thread, and same for the shroud.

Thanks all for your help so far.

iainel · Jul 5, 2009

Rusty said:
Ideally you should be using 0.8mm welding wire , if your using 0.6mm on 3mm material it will burn back too quickly and can weld itself to the tip

Oh that might be why then? I haven't had a problem when welding thinner stuff around 1mm-1.5mm.

Sparkey · Jul 5, 2009

No no, i meant you can actually feel it in your hand when it's welding smoothly or stuttering...
Uhm dunno how to explain it.... :ashamed:

edit:

Can you adjust where the tip sits? I just screw it in till the end of the thread, and same for the shroud.

No you can't adjust it, you're doing fine! just don't screw the tip in too tight, you'll have trouble changing it next time!

Rusty · Jul 5, 2009

iainel said:
Oh that might be why then? I haven't had a problem when welding thinner stuff around 1mm-1.5mm.

That's probably it then , you can compensate with a higher wire speed but the wire feed motor will be on turbo

and welding can be a bit manic :laughing:

Robotstar5 · Jul 5, 2009

To save dismantling the torch each time, pull the trigger briefly to put wire pressure on back of tip as you unscrew it, repeat if needed.

Sparkey · Jul 5, 2009

Robotstar5 said:
To save dismantling the torch each time, pull the trigger briefly to put wire pressure on back of tip as you unscrew it, repeat if needed.

Yeah! great tip Stu! and wiggle the torch, that works for me most of the times.. :ashamed:

iainel · Jul 5, 2009

Cool thanks for that, the amount of times I've dismantled the handle today is a joke!

malcolm · Jul 5, 2009

Rusty said:
Ideally you should be using 0.8mm welding wire , if your using 0.6mm on 3mm material it will burn back too quickly and can weld itself to the tip

Well spotted!
They have a burnback control on fancy MIGs which can help compensate, but with lack of that function the 0.8mm wire would help prevent the problem.

iainel · Jul 5, 2009

What's considered a fancy MIG!? I thought mine was fairly good.

Thanks all for your help, I'll grab some 0.8 and try it next weekend. Is it worth going over the stuff I've done with 0.6mm or will the only benefit be not eating a tip per minute?

malcolm · Jul 5, 2009

iainel said:
What's considered a fancy MIG!? I thought mine was fairly good.

Fancy MIGs in this context are those with a knob to adjust burn back time. It's the time the power keeps flowing after you release the trigger to avoid the wire sticking in the weld pool or nasty bits of wire that you have to chop off. Yours (like most) will be pre-set which is no bad thing.