Fake counterfeits

[Screwdriver]

Wait what? How can a counterfeit be "fake"?

Well if it's Prada or Versace and it comes from China, it's probably, genuinely, a counterfeit item.

But what about if you buy an item that's "Made in China"? Something like say a Smok TFV8 vaping coil? They are made in China by a Chinese company, probably a consortium in reality and they come with holographic stickers, scratch and sniff registration codes, certificates of authenticity and many have dedicated websites purporting to catch counterfeits...

But I recently bought a "Smok" item off eBay and it failed instantly. The item is badly made, poorly assembled, obviously untested etc. Oh and it leaked oil like a sieve and the thread has damaged a very expensive battery unit.

A quick check revealed poor quality printing, fake/missing Q codes and I resolved to at least report it. But the process with Smok is onerous to say the least. You can't just type in a number and it comes up as a fake. You have to register for an account online, download an app, burrow through the app to discover it needs a scan of the code which the fake item doesn't have.

That tickled my spidey senses. Why would a manufacturer make it so difficult to establish whether or not you have a counterfeit item and not the real deal? Then it dawned on me, what if Smok or the same Chinese consortium of manufacturers are churning out "counterfeit" items as a sideline?

Why not? Crank up the speed of the machines until they're on the edge of being useable let alone acceptable. Throw them together without bothering with pesky quality control, print out a cheapo copy of the genuine packaging, punt them out cheaply to dodgy online resellers and suddenly you can easily double your production while halving your costs.

Normally that would send your precious branding right down the toilet, people would cotton onto your products being vastly inferior devices. But of course, if they can claim it's a counterfeit item, they're off the hook. After all, they do produce very high quality vape accessories, everybody knows it and reviews are always positive.

It relies on the ubiquitous online marketplace of course. No self respecting retail outlet would dare sell you something so obviously shoddy, they will get the "premium" genuine items. The online seller only has to show you a picture...

Without even having to argue, the seller just sent a refund. Means I can't neg them or leave a warning for others because the transaction is void. I'm still quite cross about it, hence the stupidly long rant.

So, fake counterfeits. Whaddya think? Is it really a "thing"?

Caveat emptor.

 

[pawsnizzy]

Wait what? How can a counterfeit be "fake"?

Well if it's Prada or Versace and it comes from China, it's probably, genuinely, a counterfeit item.

But what about if you buy an item that's "Made in China"? Something like say a Smok TFV8 vaping coil? They are made in China by a Chinese company, probably a consortium in reality and they come with holographic stickers, scratch and sniff registration codes, certificates of authenticity and many have dedicated websites purporting to catch counterfeits...

But I recently bought a "Smok" item off eBay and it failed instantly. The item is badly made, poorly assembled, obviously untested etc. Oh and it leaked oil like a sieve and the thread has damaged a very expensive battery unit.

A quick check revealed poor quality printing, fake/missing Q codes and I resolved to at least report it. But the process with Smok is onerous to say the least. You can't just type in a number and it comes up as a fake. You have to register for an account online, download an app, burrow through the app to discover it needs a scan of the code which the fake item doesn't have.

That tickled my spidey senses. Why would a manufacturer make it so difficult to establish whether or not you have a counterfeit item and not the real deal? Then it dawned on me, what if Smok or the same Chinese consortium of manufacturers are churning out "counterfeit" items as a sideline?

Why not? Crank up the speed of the machines until they're on the edge of being useable let alone acceptable. Throw them together without bothering with pesky quality control, print out a cheapo copy of the genuine packaging, punt them out cheaply to dodgy online resellers and suddenly you can easily double your production while halving your costs.

Normally that would send your precious branding right down the toilet, people would cotton onto your products being vastly inferior devices. But of course, if they can claim it's a counterfeit item, they're off the hook. After all, they do produce very high quality vape accessories, everybody knows it and reviews are always positive.

It relies on the ubiquitous online marketplace of course. No self respecting retail outlet would dare sell you something so obviously shoddy, they will get the "premium" genuine items. The online seller only has to show you a picture...

Without even having to argue, the seller just sent a refund. Means I can't neg them or leave a warning for others because the transaction is void. I'm still quite cross about it, hence the stupidly long rant.

So, fake counterfeits. Whaddya think? Is it really a "thing"?

Caveat emptor.

Certainly is - It's happened to me (on the same products)

Dave

 

[Kayos]

Hand me my tinfoil hat.......

 

[DAPPH]

Exactly as you say ..the Chinese tend to have class one export models and Asian market models then home consumption models . What you have might well be batch failures runs . I mean they ain't going to throw them away are they ?

They sell them unbranded & cheap , the buyer labels them .....most Chinese don't read English so will buy thinking it is a genuine top quality version . Some of the more financially astute will sell these seconds on the internet where there is little chance of any comeback .

Pakistan , India & Indonesia also produce & help make up the markets for them .

Better to not use them for you don't even know what crap you are sucking in your body or blowing out onto others . Plus it's cheaper too .

 

[pedrobedro]

If it's a fake counterfeit doesn't that mean it's real ? A bit like a double negative meaning it's a positive.

 

[Screwdriver]

Hand me my tinfoil hat.......

While I would welcome a reasoned response to this potential scam, the old "no cuz you is a nutter innit" doesn't really do it for me. If you have anything useful to articulate, put me right but be in no doubt about this vast communist empire; they do not dirty their hands with capitalism for your benefit.

 

[Kayos]

While I would welcome a reasoned response to this potential scam, the old "no cuz you is a nutter innit" doesn't really do it for me. If you have anything useful to articulate, put me right but be in no doubt about this vast communist empire; they do not dirty their hands with capitalism for your benefit.

Present some actual evidence and not just random mumblings and I will present a reasoned argument

 

[Screwdriver]

If it's a fake counterfeit doesn't that mean it's real ? A bit like a double negative meaning it's a positive.

Well, yes, that is what I am suggesting. A deliberate sideline of business for a "branded" Chinese company to pass off shoddy goods as if they were "counterfeit". Another example why blockchain will inevitably become "the next big thing". Not that I am into it personally but I can see why it is so popular among commodities traders etc.

 

[Kayos]

Well, yes, that is what I am suggesting. A deliberate sideline of business for a "branded" Chinese company to pass off shoddy goods as if they were "counterfeit". Another example why blockchain will inevitably become "the next big thing". Not that I am into it personally but I can see why it is so popular among commodities traders etc.

Why do you think blockchain will become inevitable?

The banking sector wont go near it and its currently associated with scams and the dark web, it's also nowhere near as secure as its reported to be, yes it cant be cracked (yet) but a good old fashioned armed raid will get you the keys to whatever data you want

 

[Screwdriver]

Present some actual evidence and not just random mumblings and I will present a reasoned argument

I have set out a premise based on a sample of one. The "idea" has only just occurred to me and is up for discussion. You're just trolling me (again), either you have something interesting to say or you don't. I rather suspect the latter.

 

[Kayos]

I have set out a premise based on a sample of one. The "idea" has only just occurred to me and is up for discussion. You're just trolling me (again), either you have something interesting to say or you don't. I rather suspect the latter.

I'm not trolling, I'm responding to what I've seen. My reply sums up my initial response

As someone who buys vast quantities of specialised items, quite often from China, I have yet to see anything like you have stated

I have seen genuine items, fake items and poor copies but I'm yet to see any manufacturer selling a poor version of their own product and then claiming it's fake. It makes zero business sense

 

[Screwdriver]

Why do you think blockchain will become inevitable?

The banking sector wont go near it and its currently associated with scams and the dark web, it's also nowhere near as secure as its reported to be, yes it cant be cracked (yet) but a good old fashioned armed raid will get you the keys to whatever data you want

I don't know that much about it but the idea is that all transactions are effectively "marked" by a unique identifier. You can see who paid whom for what all the way from original resource to the off the shelf product, be that a commodity like oil or mass produced clothing, machinery etc. If all transactions are made in a blockchain, you can individually identify the source for everything.

 

[Kayos]

I don't know that much about it but the idea is that all transactions are effectively "marked" by a unique identifier. You can see who paid whom for what all the way from original resource to the off the shelf product, be that a commodity like oil or mass produced clothing, machinery etc. If all transactions are made in a blockchain, you can individually identify the source for everything.

That can and is done without blockchain, on some items I can tell you who pressed the start button on the machine, who assembled it, who boxed it, who checked it etc etc. Without a blockchain

 

[Screwdriver]

I have seen genuine items, fake items and poor copies but I'm yet to see any manufacturer selling a poor version of their own product and then claiming it's fake. It makes zero business sense

Ok. So you haven't seen it so you don't believe it's happening.

I have made a business case for it as above. I don't "know" if it's true, it just occurs to me that it could easily be a deliberate scam.

As for tinfoilhattery, I personally have issues with the idea of a state controlled communist nation like China. They are dangerous and not just for their unfortunate citizens. When China sneezes, the world catches a cold. I think that aphorism has been around for decades but has never been so true as it is right now.

 

[Kayos]

Ok. So you haven't seen it so you don't believe it's happening.

I have made a business case for it as above. I don't "know" if it's true, it just occurs to me that it could easily be a deliberate scam.

As for tinfoilhattery, I personally have issues with the idea of a state controlled communist nation like China. They are dangerous and not just for their unfortunate citizens. When China sneezes, the world catches a cold. I think that aphorism has been around for decades but has never been so true as it is right now.

I'm saying your suspected option makes zero business sense and in all likelihood you thought you were getting a bargain but in fact were ripped off

Not some huge conspiracy by the manufacturer to sell cheap products then claim they are fake

 

[Wany]

Our local Facebook marketplace adverts for dodgy branded goods often use the phrase "Not fake, quality reproductions".

 

[slim_boy_fat]

 

[the snooper]

There are loads of dodgy people selling on ebay, often using the same pictures sites looking almost identical, the only way I see this is sellers buying from two different sources 1 half decent and the other diabolical and maybe passing the items off as being from one half decent supplier

 

[Shox Dr]

I'm not trolling, I'm responding to what I've seen. My reply sums up my initial response

As someone who buys vast quantities of specialised items, quite often from China, I have yet to see anything like you have stated

I have seen genuine items, fake items and poor copies but I'm yet to see any manufacturer selling a poor version of their own product and then claiming it's fake. It makes zero business sense

While not necessarily agreeing with the OP. There are plenty of examples where highend branded goods are sold out the back door. Since the Brand owner doesn't see any revenue from these sales they are branded Fake. The relevant authorities impound and destroy, protecting the brand and keeping prices high

 

[WorkshopChris]

I have made a business case for it as above. I don't "know" if it's true, it just occurs to me that it could easily be a deliberate scam.

I haven't seen what it si that you are complaining about but I can't see if would make financial viability for the original manufacture.
Almost all plastic parts will have marking from the tooling along with impression and tooling info, it would only need something like this to be able to tie the "fake" back to the original manufacture. Then the news is out and it's game over. It's not just a case to turn the speed of the machine up.