Inhaling Argon

[geeman]

Ive tried inhaling helium before where it makes your voice all squeaky. Today, after i got my pureshield argon, i thought to myself why not tryit with argon making your voice deeper as it is inert and the effect should last longer than helium as its heavier than air. I found this http://everything2.com/title/Argon and thought why not give it ago. anyone tried inahling argon before for fun??

 

[weldingscotty803]

not really a clever thing to do mate, as it can cause asphixiation

 

[Omniata]

I wouldn't recommend it, balloon helium is mixed with a lot of compressed air so you don't asphixiate breathing it in...

Being heavier than air though, so some may remain in your lungs...

 

[Hitch]

No. A very foolish thing to do imho.

I dont thing anything pooling at the bottom of your lungs is a good idea, especially doing it for 'fun'



I have noticed if i have done a lot of tig welding that i can become tight chested for a number of hours. It does eventually clear, but unpleasant.

 

[Archie]

You could stand on your head for a few minutes afterwards!

In seriousness, I know advocating safety on the forum is advisable so I'm not condoning this plan but I really can't see how this one is going to go too wrong (famous last words!). As has already been mentioned it's an asphyxiant so don't get too carried away but proceed at your own risk!

 

[weldequip]

but I really can't see how this one is going to go too wrong

What! This thread should be pulled, people have died through Argon asphyxiation!
weldequip

 

[Archie]

You're right of course Steve. But presumably they were not aware they were inhaling at the time. I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that the OP has no intention of hooking himself up to the cylinder and staying there for any length of time. 'Cos that would be silly!

 

[Iain Westland]

soory about my post, thought about it and see why its been pulled

 

[Drains]

It's not just that it's an asphyxiant - that usually makes it a confined space risk. It's the weight of the stuff, so in the right circumstances it'll kill you even in the open air -

Can't remember who it was now, but some silly sod on the telly inhaling argon or similar heavy gas, when he stopped inhaling it, he couldn't breathe air - he was asphyxiating. As Hitch says, it pools in your lungs. Upside down is the only way to get it out!

Really, DON"T do it!! (at least not without other people around, who know EXACTLY what the risks are, and what to do if things go wrong. Hopefully that'll put you off enough)

Helium's fine, as it goes up! Now try inhaling helium when you're standing on your head...

 

[Paul.]

An interesting piece about argon asphyxiation about 2/3rd of the way down this page, under the heading "confined space entry and inert gases"
one of the initial effects of breathing argon is a narcotic effect, so you become affected but don't realise or care, then within eight seconds the average person will be unconscious.
As Hitch said, I also notice the effects of argon on my chest after Tig welding, not pleasant and lasts most of the evening,

 

[Archie]

Simon I don't wish to argue with you but I am sceptical of this 'pooling' business. Breathing is a very active process; it doesn't rely on diffusion of gases (OK, so not strictly true. Diffusion across the skin membrane and into the blood is fundamental to breathing but I'm talking about the process of getting air into the lungs) but on movement of air due to pressure differences. It's my (inexpert) opinion the act of inhalation and exhalation would quickly clear the lungs of any gas, inert of otherwise, since the turbulent nature of the air entering the lungs would quickly mix the contents and the physical expulsion would get rid of it. If we couldn't exhale heavier molecules how would be get rid of CO2 which is heavier than the Oxygen we rely on?

Again, I'm not saying this is the best of ideas and it's certainly not something I would condone but a couple of breaths to prove a point is, I feel, unlikely to have any long term ill effects. If someone can show me otherwise, please fire away!

 

[Drains]

Archie. I wish I could remember who, and on what programme it was, but we're talking about someone being extremely distressed, and surrounded by a tv crew who really didn't know what to do (now there's a surprise). All looked a bit scary.

However... I can see there may be an element of risk, inasmuch as when you breathe out, you don't empty your lungs (take a peek here), but only void slightly over half the 6-odd litres of lung capacity in a normal breath. At least a litre is left behind even if you totally breathe out as much as you can. I can't be bothered to work out how many breaths it would take to get your oxygen levels back to the normal 21% oxygen... Arch, your homework for tonight I think -

Assuming your lungs are full of the asphyxiant, heavier than air gas, Argon, how many breaths would it take during normal breathing, to restore oxygen in the lungs to a "normal" level (let's say, to within 2%)

Don't forget, air doesn't "mix" well in the lungs, which are not designed as a swirl or mixing chamber, but are a very intricate network of passages, if you will, with an enormous surface area of around 70m2. Heavy stuff will stay down.

He he.

Si

 

[Archie]

Ha. I knew you wouldn't miss that small hole in my argument! I got to wondering about that after I submitted my last reply. I even went so far as to sit here huffing and puffing away in an effort to decide whether I could completely empty my lungs. Sad or what!

Any-who. Looks like I may have been a bit rash. TBH, it's still probably something I'd try. I've never denied that for anything other than a very brief exposure this would be a very bad idea but I still feel that for the purposes of a couple of breaths you'd probably be OK. But again, that's just my foolhardy opinion! Maybe I'll give it a go and report back (from beyond the grave)!

Mass editing going on here. I disagree that air doesn't mix well in the lungs. Surely CO2 must mix with incoming air otherwise it too would, as you so eloquently puy it, 'stay down'.

 

[Drains]

Ha. I knew you wouldn't miss that small hole in my argument! :

A small hole in the lower lung might be helpful though. Can't beat a sucking chest wound for evacuating unwanted argon!

Re the mass edit... Yes, of course co2 mixes, but you're looking at a constant mix, not one gas taking over. You exhale 16% Oxygen. Only 5-odd % is absorbed. The lungs are a vehicle for absorbing oxygen and giving out co2, but not for mixing them.

You could ride a kiddies scooter down a motorway, but it's not what it's designed to do. Sorry, crud metaphor, but hopefully you get my drift.

 

[Archie]

Or perhaps if you were a free diver and able to collapse your lungs?!

Right one last edit as I'm clearly already well out of my depth and likely to drown (or asphyxiate in a different fluid!). I agree the lung has probably not evolved specifically to be the most efficient mixing mechanism in the world just as the scooter is not bet suited to motorway travel but that doesn't mean mixing does not occur, just as the scooter could travel on a motorway. And yes, that really is a ****** metaphor!

So anyway, at this point I bow out through lack of scientific knowledge and firm facts. Off to bed with the Encyclopaedia Britannica tonight!

 

[voipio]

A single intake of argon, as with helium, does not differ much from holding your breath for a short while after breathing out. Argon's density at 1.33kg/m3 is not very different to air at about 1.2kg/m3. It will not pool in the lungs because the lungs are not simply a passive static space, but rather a "pumped" system with gas flows. The argon will tend to be carried out of the lungs, rather like the wind "carries" shielding gas from your welding torch. Also, consider this. The density of carbon dioxide is 1.98kg/m3, almost twice that of air, yet our bodies produce it and it doesn't pool in the lungs for the reasons given above.

The effect of a gas on your voice is determined by the speed of sound in the gas. In air, where sound travels at 347m/s, your voice sounds normal. The speed of sound in helium is 1000m/s or thereabouts, and it is this which is responsible for producing a squeaky "Donald Duck" voice. Hydrogen's effect would be "better" still at 1300m/s though I'm not suggesting you try this.

The speed of sound in argon is 323m/s so little different from that in air. Your voice will sound fairly normal after a lungfull of the stuff. However, krypton (220m/s) or xenon (197m/s) would definitely make your voice sound lower-pitched. One note of caution with xenon. It is a general anaesthetic under hyperbaric conditions, and some effects will be noticed at amospheric pressure. Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwnLiXK-v5U&feature=related

Voi

 

[Archie]

Hallelujah! Support at last and from someone who sounds like he knows his onions too. Ignore the last post, Simon, we're back on!

 

[Paul.]

Archie. I wish I could remember who, and on what programme it was, but we're talking about someone being extremely distressed, and surrounded by a tv crew who really didn't know what to do (now there's a surprise). All looked a bit scary.


Si

I think you may be referring to the Horizon documentary, with Michael Portillo
How to kill a human being,
Here it is
and here

 

[ngt]

I took 2 breaths of helium from a baloon in 20 seconds time in between, and although i was precautious, took numerous fast breaths before to take oxygen.
But... after the 2nd dose, i nearly fainted after some seconds exhaling the 2nd dose of helium, i understand it quickly and i sat at a chair, felt the typical cold slowly running down my legs, while i felt like someone loosened my joints, and for 5-10 minutes i felt my body heavy !
About Pure Argon ? Heard its more diffficult to be exhaled from blood !

 

[runnach]

took numerous fast breaths before to take oxygen.

Sounds like hyperventilation symptoms, not recommended if for example snorkeling, more info here>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilating

And maybe why it is a bad idea to intake argon here>>

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=15771