Please give feedback on welds....

[Stunter]

Could you spare a minute to give feedback on these welds please, it'll help me and others looking at these pictures.

This is with a borrowed Migatronic Rally 166 with CO2/Argon mix and 0.8 wire.

Thick plate.

This is 8mm plate and i've welded 10mm flat bar to it, no prep (other than being clean sufaces).

It's pretty enough and i know there's not penetration all the way through but does it look ok to the trained eye?

 

[Stunter]

Next i tried to break it, hitting from the top (weld side) down, it was virtually unbreakable however hitting from the other side was easier, as expected.

The weld broke through the middle which i’m led to believe means it was too cold but if the material each side is 8 or 10mm, wouldn’t the thinner material, ie the weld itself break anyway?

For better penetration i could bevel the edge of the plate but what would you suggest i do to the plate i’m attaching to? Do i channel that out too? I’ve read about doing more than one pass, given the size of the welder used here, should that be something i can do?



(ps. not sure how to load pictures and put writing in between, this is different to when i was a Mod for another forum – i’m loaded from my comp?..........)

 

[wyn]

The weld looks good. I think it would break off whatever if there is no preperation on the plate.

The last picture with the preperation is spot on...no need to do anything with the plate it sits on.

 

[Stunter]

Thinner tube

this is 1.5mm tube, i was getting the hang of it with some nice looking welds and good penetration all the way through welding directly onto the tube (i cut open the tube to compare with the tutorial pictures ) so i thought i'd try a few joins.

The straight butt weld went ok on the same sort of settings i used on the tube with no join but the 't-piece' joint was a different story

I'm happy with the strength but have you any tips which method is best, like where to start or how to clamp etc?



The 90 degree angle joint was fun too.........i did turn it down for the outside of the 'elbow' and back up for the inside, any suggestions on how to do this more consistantly?

In one of the pictures you can see how the weld sits ontop of the tube as i had it too low, i see that now i've looked at it but is there any tips on this type of joint?

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

I set mine up for penetration on the sides and inside angle and then pulse the outside angle to stop blow-through...basically weld in one second burst with a one second pause in between to let the weld cool slightly.

The thicker welding looks good as you're trying to go way beyond what the welder is capable of doing.

On the prepped joint you'll probably need to put 2 - 3 big tacks on one side, note that as it cools the weld will pull the angle to less than 90 degrees. then when you fully weld the other side it should hopefully pull back to 90 degrees. Finally you fully weld the first side. Multiple passes would be the only way you could do that joint with that welder, I think, based on what I reckon I can do with my Clarke 150TE.

Regards
Peter

 

[Tino]

To improve your penetration on the thick plate try grinding any scale (the grey surface on new steel) away, even a thin layer will reduce the penetration the mig likes clean shiny metal. Heating the plates would also help (stick em in the oven for half an hour).And finally use the highest setting you are comfortable with, 0.8 is a bit on the small side for 10mm but it will be okay. The only way to get full pen (not always necessary) would be to prep.
Thin stuff try welding vertical down, you should be able to get good pen and flatter welds. You may need to leave a small gap to get good pen.
The joint with the prep try turning it 90 degrees so the prep is the bottom plate, this makes it easier to fill the prep and then less prone to undercut when you complete the weld (peterd51 is right about welding first one side then the other) with multi runs.

 

[Stunter]

The weld looks good. I think it would break off whatever if there is no preperation on the plate.

The last picture with the preperation is spot on...no need to do anything with the plate it sits on.

ok thanks for that

Hi,

I set mine up for penetration on the sides and inside angle and then pulse the outside angle to stop blow-through...basically weld in one second burst with a one second pause in between to let the weld cool slightly.

The thicker welding looks good as you're trying to go way beyond what the welder is capable of doing.

On the prepped joint you'll probably need to put 2 - 3 big tacks on one side, note that as it cools the weld will pull the angle to less than 90 degrees. then when you fully weld the other side it should hopefully pull back to 90 degrees. Finally you fully weld the first side. Multiple passes would be the only way you could do that joint with that welder, I think, based on what I reckon I can do with my Clarke 150TE.

Regards
Peter

thanks Peter, i'll try out what you've said tomorrow (been doing the half-term family duties for a couple of days so should be able to get back in the garage to play )

To improve your penetration on the thick plate try grinding any scale (the grey surface on new steel) away, even a thin layer will reduce the penetration the mig likes clean shiny metal. Heating the plates would also help (stick em in the oven for half an hour).And finally use the highest setting you are comfortable with, 0.8 is a bit on the small side for 10mm but it will be okay. The only way to get full pen (not always necessary) would be to prep.
Thin stuff try welding vertical down, you should be able to get good pen and flatter welds. You may need to leave a small gap to get good pen.
The joint with the prep try turning it 90 degrees so the prep is the bottom plate, this makes it easier to fill the prep and then less prone to undercut when you complete the weld (peterd51 is right about welding first one side then the other) with multi runs.

thanks, some more good steps for me to practice. I was happy with the pen on the thin stuff (although some are sat ontop of the metal too much as i was playing with settings - i posted the pics as a true representation of my early attempts to learn more) but can now try these techniques.

Turning 90 degrees is a good idea and it should be easier to weld that way too. I guess that with no prep there would be a gap in the joint but with the prep it will make sure there's no gap and i see there will be no need to channel out the plate i'm welding to, as long as it's all fused together.

Can't wait!

 

[Stunter]

Ok been trying out the techniques suggested here for the 8mm plate today, prep and positioning of the plates, tacks and then one pass each side.

One side was slightly more proud than the other, probably as it was done 1st and the other side had heat built up by grinding down the tacks, and then the heat from the weld on the other side.


What should i do next? do i grind off a little of the weld and do another pass or grind back quite far and make a shallow channel then another pass?

Do i keep the weld the same size or go slightly wider than the 1st pass?

Thanks in advance




p.s. does everyone look at EVERYTHING they see welded throughout the day when they start getting into welding? (walking around a zoo the other day looking at the landrover with it's rack on the back, the cages the animals are in, the metal guard around the elephants park and even the picnic table we sat at......)

 

[wyn]

I would only grind it back if you have any holes with slag in it.

If it looks good run another weld where the first one meets the plate.....sort of 1/2 on the original weld and 1/2 on the base plate. the next weld should run above the second weld and meet the upright plate.

I don't think that explains it very well, i'm sure i've seen some diagrams in other posts.

 

[Stunter]

I would only grind it back if you have any holes with slag in it.

If it looks good run another weld where the first one meets the plate.....sort of 1/2 on the original weld and 1/2 on the base plate. the next weld should run above the second weld and meet the upright plate.

I don't think that explains it very well, i'm sure i've seen some diagrams in other posts.

They're pretty clean, i just heard or read that it's best to grind back some of the weld 1st.
I'll try what you said, it's explained well enough, i'll end up with 2 runs of weld beside each other (3 in total each side).

thanks for that wyn

 

[wyn]

When i saw the grinding back bit i was thinking arc. Off course with mig there shouldn't be much in the way of rubbish in the weld and it will be reasonably smooth like the weld in your pic.

Here's a rough drawing of the multi-run thing.

 

[zardoz]

p.s. does everyone look at EVERYTHING they see welded throughout the day when they start getting into welding? (walking around a zoo the other day looking at the landrover with it's rack on the back, the cages the animals are in, the metal guard around the elephants park and even the picnic table we sat at......)

'fraid so, you now will find yourself examining every weld you see. You cant help it, well at least i can't. Whats worse is when you start critisizing any poor welds and commenting on them out loud to completely disintrested people, ie: everyone who does not weld (in other words practically everyone)

 

[Stunter]

When i saw the grinding back bit i was thinking arc. Off course with mig there shouldn't be much in the way of rubbish in the weld and it will be reasonably smooth like the weld in your pic.

Here's a rough drawing of the multi-run thing.

thanks for taking the time to do that, that's what i had in mind from your description

 

[Stunter]

'fraid so, you now will find yourself examining every weld you see. You cant help it, well at least i can't. Whats worse is when you start critisizing any poor welds and commenting on them out loud to completely disintrested people, ie: everyone who does not weld (in other words practically everyone)

it's hard not to look, can't help myself - just want to know more and understand it all



(i thought there were other replies to this bit earlier, like from the electrician? where have they gone? (MOD's?) )

 

[Wozzaaah]

I split the thread Stunter, it went wayyyyyy off topic
The other posts are now in the social club section.

 

[rugger w/welder]

Stunter

You stated that you ground down the tacks before welding. Your tacks looked small enough that passing right over should not cause a problem. It would be a time saver. You could try it and if you like the results, you know the learning curve. Good luck.

spicoli

 

[zardoz]

I split the thread Stunter, it went wayyyyyy off topic
The other posts are now in the social club section.

Ah i wondered what had happened. I saw the other thread and thought that was the original. I couldnt understand why i was not in a thread that i definately remembered answering to ?

 

[Stunter]

I split the thread Stunter, it went wayyyyyy off topic
The other posts are now in the social club section.

ok, keeps things tidy and i know how these things can go off on a tangent

Stunter

You stated that you ground down the tacks before welding. Your tacks looked small enough that passing right over should not cause a problem. It would be a time saver. You could try it and if you like the results, you know the learning curve. Good luck.

spicoli

i'll try that next time, just thought this time i'd get rid of the extra thickness




I showed a mate who used to weld for his dads firm the plate pictured up to this point, as it may look a little different with the naked eye, he confirmed the same as on here and said to do the 2 passes as suggested.


I finally got the chance to do just that today and the pictures show both sides, the 1st few pictures show the 1st pass on one side where i was going nice and smooth until i snagged the torch and it went a little wobbly while i tried to free it with my other hand rather than stopping

I've put a couple of pictures in of the weld before cleaning off in case i'm getting rid of clues as to what i could be doing better. I did turn the wire speed down very slightly on one pass too and went a little slower which seemed to go ok.

The 2nd side i stopped short on both welds so i know which side is which. There seems to be a lot more spatter than before, any ideas/reasons?
(gas is the same, valve fully open and clean metal)

thanks for all your comments

 

[simmo]

hey mate,

those welds have good potential, all you need is practise and they will come up very professional.

you've obviously got the hang of it, and they are structurally good, correct settings technique etc. just keep at it and they will look bling

 

[zardoz]

One thing i have noticed is that you appear to have used a wire wheel to "clean" the metal first. The last 2 pics appear to clearly show this.In my humble opinion this is not as good as actually grinding off the mill scale right through to shiny metal. what do others think ?