Burdekin
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There's currently over 30million cars in the UK. If 25% of those were changed out to battery cars, that's a lot of storage capacity to help level out demand etc.
- Thread starter Woody.v8
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There's currently over 30million cars in the UK. If 25% of those were changed out to battery cars, that's a lot of storage capacity to help level out demand etc.
We don't need all these expensive crazy ideas. CO2 emissions are rising all the time because people can't see the obvious.
France is the only major country that meets its targets. Because of all it's nuclear power. Something they have used safely for over 50 years!
France is the only major country that meets its targets. Because of all it's nuclear power. Something they have used safely for over 50 years!
But there is no demand at night!!!
In the day the cars are in use. Just travel the M4!
Burdekin
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If 10% of cars in the UK were plugged into the grid at any time that would be 3million batteries so a decent storage capacity.
IF that happened - and everyone was connected and not using their cars then it would provide 2hrs of capacity. During a typical winter lull you could need 7 to 10 days worth. Sadly there is far more coming out than coming in. Storage doesn't help that!
Think of it like a reservoir in a drought. Even if you keep taking water out of it and storing it in tanks - then topping it back up - the water level still keeps dropping as there is more coming out than going in.
And electric cars will make that problem worse not better.
There was an article on the news this morning about a Portuguese Island (I think) that is talking about using EV's to supply the grid overnight and then charge in the day - this is not my area of science, but like fizzy says, I just kept thinking there must be more coming out of those batteries than can go in and then they are empty. It just doesn't make sense.
CompoSimmonite
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I had a silly thought this morning about motorsport in the future. Imagine the Lewis etc pulling in for a pit stop - and then waiting 4 hours whilst batteries recharge in the F1 car 
Burdekin
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Yes that's the idea about battery storage, to help cope with high demand times. Again yes of course electric cars will increase the amount of electricity but there would be an immediate positive effect on reducing toxic air pollution in cities. That is undisputable no matter how you try and twist things and divert from that topic. If you don't use fossil fuels in cities you keep the air cleaner which is healthier for everyone. Electric cars aren't the saviour alone for eliminating the production of green house gasses but transport in the UK is the largest contributor to greenhouse gases, fact! Here is another fact; EV produces around 15 tonnes of CO2 from construction through to scrapping, compared to an average of 32 tonnes for the equivalent petrol or diesel car so yes a EV over its life contributes half the amount of CO2. Now I assume you'll go off on another tangent and not address any of the facts. EV's will lower deaths in cities from toxic air quality and they will halve CO2 produced by the 30million cars in the UK. Not a bad start.
None of it makes sense. The ONLY reason people are building rubbish like this is because of the complicated subsidies politicians have invented. Anyone with a modicum of sense wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
The new battery in Scotland will store 50mw/h for £20 million. The windfarm it is attached to can produce 538mw/h. So it will only store 10% of it's output. In other words if the wind stops blowing the battery will supply 6 minutes of electricity! Considering a lull can last a week to 2 weeks that isn't much use!
Gareth J
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Another thought re. battery storage.
I have an engine preheater on my car, its remote controlled and takes 1/2- 3/4 hr to heat the coolant to ~50-60 Celcius.
Is use it summer and winter on any journey over ~5mi. A back of the envelope calc suggests it's cost effective as it does significantly increase mpg on short journeys. With imagination, you could call it a plug-in hybrid
My point being, it's very rare that I jump into the car for a journey longer than this without knowing about it long enough in advance to put the heater on. In which case, if I had an electric car that could "play with" the grid, I'd be happy enough to let it do that so long as I could command it to top back up to ~80% from wherever it had been drawn down to within 1/2hr to 1hr.
I have an engine preheater on my car, its remote controlled and takes 1/2- 3/4 hr to heat the coolant to ~50-60 Celcius.
Is use it summer and winter on any journey over ~5mi. A back of the envelope calc suggests it's cost effective as it does significantly increase mpg on short journeys. With imagination, you could call it a plug-in hybrid
My point being, it's very rare that I jump into the car for a journey longer than this without knowing about it long enough in advance to put the heater on. In which case, if I had an electric car that could "play with" the grid, I'd be happy enough to let it do that so long as I could command it to top back up to ~80% from wherever it had been drawn down to within 1/2hr to 1hr.
daleyd
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Do you only ever deal in extremes? The wind doesn't tend to blow at full pelt or nothing at all!! I imagine the battery would be used to smooth out times when the wind is perhaps not so strong, therefore making the available energy last longer.
If you could imagine a light wind generating x amount of power, the batteries would be topped up when there is less demand than provided, ie overnight, then discharged into the grid during peak times, again to be recharged when there's a lull...
But it is the horrendous cost for miniscule return. Take away the subsidies and none of this would be built.
Tobymonster
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The battery facility has not been built solely for the wind farm. The battery storage has been built so that they can make money. You've said it yourself, nobody uses electricity at night, when it's cheap, so this company will charge or buy electricity during the night when it's low and release (sell) during peak hours for a profit. Hydro electric schemes have been doing this for years.
slim_boy_fat
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This discussion can/will rumble on for days/weeks/months without any definitive agreement being reached.
A mountain looks completely different, depending on where you're standing........
. 
A mountain looks completely different, depending on where you're standing........
. 
DAPPH
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It may well be that we will move the goalposts as to if something that is less polluting is economical , it may become a necessity not to have the pollution and live with the cost .
For example :- The antismog laws (Clean air acts in the late 1950's early 1960's ) cost a lot but was imperative in coal burning places like London & other large towns & cities to try and help the health of the inhabitants .
DAPPH
as dyslexik as I'm daft
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If you think you are averaging 70 mph on those Skye trips you must be doing well over 150 mph for a fair part of your journey .
MattH
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And that's a balancing act. Poverty kills plenty of people. Destroy our economy to clear smog and kill those at the bottom.
Gareth J
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Ad a comparison, the lands end John o groats speed record averaged under 90mph.
daleyd
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It’s a good job nuclear has never had any subsidies then...
Dcal
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This discussion can/will rumble on for days/weeks/months without any definitive agreement being reached.
A mountain looks completely different, depending on where you're standing........
So true Slim,.
I really didn't want to engage on this thread and accept it's unlightly anyone will change their position, but the misinformation, opinion and downright lies being put about as fact do need challenging before they are accepted by the disinterested as fact.
Fizzy has a valid point of view and I accept a lot of what he's saying, I just don"t understand why he is so certain all the time and so implacable opposed to renewable.
